2025 winter and summer squash!

True to type is a matter of degree certainly, just as inbred is a matter of degree. Squash have a pretty high degree of tolerance for inbreeding, even if you choose to make self pollinations for a number of generations, and that is the most extreme form of inbreeding possible. You don’t have to create that extreme of a bottleneck though. You can achieve the same effect with any degree of more gradual inbreeding, cousins etc. over more generations. Technically, even at the species level, any two species who share a common ancestor exist as the result of inbreeding within each given population over a lengthy period of time.

I will say that it is certainly possible to select for a vigorous, healthy squash with a consistent fruit type if you start with material that has those traits and you so choose, and it’s also certainly possible to have a genetically diverse & phenotypically variable population of squash that is weak and/or unhealthy overall. In selection of plants or animals, you get more of the traits of the parents, both good and bad, in future generations. The challenge is always to select the plants with the most good traits while limiting the bad traits.

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Very interesting, It all depends on if it has the resistance traits or not. I’m just worried that when a new disease or pest shows up, there isn’t enough diversity in the population to adapt to it. I like the good enough “true to type” approach, if that makes sense.
For my butternut squash landrace I can leave the good flavor & Long-Neck trait stable & let everything else fluctuate.

I was scared to do much selfing to create a bottleneck but if it’s possible for all the right disease resistant traits to still be there, perhaps I may do more selfing.

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Our favorite winter squash is Mezoides from Sandhill; sweet, stores well until late spring. Even when picked green if frost threatens, just like Sandhill’s Glenn Drowns says, it turns orange and sweet. We use Mezoides for pumpkin pie. It also seems less predisposed to powdery mildew. We have also grown Tromboncino for almost 2 decades now. My latest source for Tromboncino seed is Baker’s because reviews stated the Bakers strain sweetens some as a winter. True enough, this strain does sweeten up, not as sweet as Mezoides but sweet enough for us since we are trying to watch our carb intake. The above two are c. moschata, undeterred by SVB.

We also love Bush Delicata and our seeds were from Fruition Seeds; quite resistant to powdery mildew and I grow this in huge planters the size of a half oak barrel. This is c. pepo.

I have not had much success with zucchini due to squash bugs and powdery mildew. I grew Caserta from Sandhill’s seeds in a crate in 2024 and was able to harvest decently.

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glenn is so cool about things

tromboncino produce a LOT here, between that and the crookneck I get enough to give a lot away in summer. I’ve only let one of the trombos go to winter squash stage and it was good but not the best winter squash I’ve had.

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That’s the thing I’ve always wonder with Summer Squash, After gardeners have too much, why don’t they let the plant go to seed & form fully ripe fruits? I’ve never had land to garden (despite me trying to :sob:) so maybe I just don’t get how much they can produce.

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Here in Wyoming it is all still dreams and plans. But I want to raise more of the ‘Maxidiwiac’ summer squash from Experimental Farm Network. I got them in very late last year but still got a few to eat. They are still very variable and I even had one vining plant in my group of 3 hills. The goal this year is to get them going much earlier and select a plant or two to save seeds from.
Winter squash I hope I can try a buttercup again as those almost gave me a ripe squash one year. Otherwise I will put in some Acorn or Delectate in the back yard to if I have room.

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I do with a lot of things but squash, they can get throwback genes and be bitter or toxic. I do purposely pollinate a flower or two from the source plant to itself each year and save that one single squash to maturity, to get seed from. but I don’t like to risk too much cross pollination.

I do save some seed from winter sweet squashes because I don’t mind them taking up “front yard” space, if they produce food it’s good, if they’re bitter, they’re just green compost out there.

you need room to trial and error with these.

tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, greens etc you can save seed more easily, less risk of wasted space. like a bokchoi that crosses with a kale is just gonna make an ugly bokchoi or a condensed kale, they’re not going to make anything you can’t eat. so it’s not wasted space to save those seed.

unrelated note, I started my long long season squashes in the greenhouse this week. in blocks. they’ll need an up-pot in a month or so, then by the time I can start hardening off, they’ll be in flower. hoping that early pollinators help them along before we get our heat wave. timing with long season squashes can be tough here

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Indeed, the bitterness is the toxic part & it’s LOUD and very in your face kind of detectable if you have taste buds. I’d be scared if I had zero taste buds as I can use my taste to weed out the toxic squash from my landrace. I’ve heard Cucurbita angyrosperma x Cucurbita moschata Often make Bitter fruited offspring, have you noticed this? Most of the time cultivated Non-Bitter Squash breed non-bitter fruits.
I’m curious how your crossing experiments go? Which types do you cross?
In what plant part did you notice bitterness? Seeds only, Seed Strings, Fruit Flesh, Flowers, Greens & Shoots?

I’ve even tasted Bitterness in Grocery Store Squash, just by licking the seeds strings I could taste the bitterness (The flesh wasn’t bitter, the part most people eat thus they probably never noticed bitterness in seed strings). The bitterness in seed strings actually translated into bitter flower ovaries & nectars. Delicata Squash Seed Strings were sweet & not Bitter.

I’m thinking you can try tasting the leaves & Flowers with Ovaries for bitterness thus you can weed out bitter squash before any fruits even mature or before any even pollinate your other squash.

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Any recommendations on “big” pumpkins? Not necessarily the enormous varieties, but anything that will typically with good care get above 50lbs and be suitable for display.

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Does this mean something like bitter melon is technically toxic? Or is that a different compound?

It’s because bitter melon uses a different type of bitter from all the other cucurbitaceae crops, right? IIRC Momodricidies Differ from Cucurbitacins which are toxic.
I know in Melons, Squash, Chayote, Watermelons, Mousemelons, Egusi, Wintermelon, Luffa, the toxin taste bitter! Bittermelon may be the exception due to a different kind of bitterness. I haven’t studied Bittermelon Momordica thoroughly yet.

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I’m not sure! I did grow bitter melon last year for the first time. there’s a thread here just on them, I might go in and ask.

I don’t typically cross squashes at all, I try to self-pollinate a few flowers to get seed from the parent plant

I like the big Hubbards and have had many long candy roasters get that big. maybe triamble? I think they are not massive but you might get to decent size with them (and they are interesting to look at)

Fig leaf gourd successful transplanted on its hill with the everso helpful, not in the way garden cat. Also have acorn squash popping up, the round zuccini transplanted, and a seminole pumpkin to transplant today or tomorrow.

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jealous of your early Florida season!

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Where are you getting your shishigantani seed? I have been desperately trying to find it again.

For summer, Romanesco, Coosa, Lebanese White bush, and Gelber Englischer.

For winter, I only grow types that are resistant to SVB, C. moschata:

  • African Winter Squash - my main choice, amazing heirloom originally from the Congo, great flavor, very pest/disease resistant, stores well for a long time, a bit like a large butternut, but much better
    -Kikuza - so excited to have finally found seed again! small Japanese Heirloom. Pumpkin-like with great flavor. Very pretty
  • Autumn Frost - not big on hybrids, but this one is fantastic
  • Tetsukubuto - still not 100% sure on this one, but I’m going to grow it again
  • Black Futsu - like the flavor, peeling it is a pain.
    Picture from a few year’s back
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I’ve had a couple packs for a few years and 2023 I saved some seed I grew out. I’m willing to trade if you like!

Apparently now I’m in some sort of bid to grow my own hulless shishigatani-looking squash this year. Been buying whatever hulless I can find with the intention of letting them cross with shishigatani. (Cause I liked it so much.)

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Also if you want to order online, true leaf market took over Kitazawa (where I got my seeds originally) apparently last year.

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