Advice for ambitious newbie apple orchard

A local orchardist has been super kind to me and said that I could work at his orchard for the experience.

Actually, the rootstocks are less than 1000. Yes, with materials it surpasses that but, like blueberry said, the total cost is still less than one college course.

Tons of free labor. My parents turned our house into a “work-away” for permaculture enthusiasts so at any given time we seem to have 3-5 volunteers living at our house usually in their 20s.

Weather related loss is fine that’s part of the learning process and it’s not like I’m relying on these trees for anything. I don’t anticipate being strapped for money but I’m not going to throw money after any lost causes either. I want to run things cheaply until I have more experience.

My parents are in their early 50s and will hopefully die on the farm. Assuming the work away continues (and I think it will actually grow a lot and they are adding more housing capabilities) they won’t have to worry about getting physically old because they have plenty of young labor. I don’t forsee living more than 30 miles away but you never know.

Maybe??? These trees will hopefully not be producing fruit (30 years) by the time I have to make that decision.

We have some scrap trellising material and I’m only going to do high density on 100 of them. The rest are larger self-standing rootstocks like B118 and M106 that we will use for reforestation and silvapasture.

It’s good that you ask all these questions because they could point to holes in my plan and they also force me to think every aspect through. This might be a mistake but since I goal is a massive learning experience then I don’t see how I could fail in that department…although maybe the lesson learned will be to listen to the people on the growingfruit forum when they warn against something :grin:

2 Likes

My original nursery bed was planted out with trees 1’ apart in the row and row’s 1’ apart. It is too close to comfortably weed, prune, spray and mulch. The second section I added is planted with trees 1’ apart in the rows, two rows 1’ apart, and then a 2’ row to allow for easy access from either side for weeding, pruning, spraying and mulching (every other row is wider). Don’t fertilize past late June / early July, the trees need time to harden off in the fall to prepare for winter, especially in your WI climate.

5 Likes

Wow that is very different spacing from 1 inch apart! Why do you need 1 foot apart? I understand the row width. How long do you leave your trees in the bed?

Good idea about not fertilizing too late in the growing season.

@Kellogg_Hill_Farms How does 1 inch spacing work for you? Can you actually leave them like that for more than just the summer after they were grafted?

Sorry, that was a typo. I have them 6 inches between trees, rows 1 foot apart in nursery beds

2 Likes

Okay that makes more sense. How many years could they be kept there before they become too crowded? I think I will follow andy’s advice and make 2’ rows for walking but is 1’ better than 6" for spacing?

@AndySmith why do you like 1’ spacing?

One foot or six inch or whatever…you put them too close and leave them for multiple years, you may have trouble separating the intertwined roots when you go to dig/remove them from the bed in the future.
But, for one year, I wouldn’t think it would matter greatly.
And if some of your rootstocks are really skimpy, you can put them even closer than 6 inches for a season to save space if you need to do that.

1 Like

I’m a fan of “bench graft”, immediately put into a 2gal nursery pot, all spring/summer keep close to a water hose, transplant to orchard area that fall.

2 Likes

Yes. And undersized rootstocks can go in a one gallon pot, and oversized ones can be put in a 3 gallon container.

They are in the nursery bed for anywhere between 6 months to 15 months, depending on when they are grafted and the following planting season. Chip budded in the summer, they are planted in final position the following fall.

I’d just say to go with your gut. Do it all if that’s what you think sounds good. It might be just the experience that you need.

And if you do happen to have any small failures, just remember how valuable they are as learning experiences.

2 Likes

When I transplant them to their permanent location I can do so with less loss of established root system. Two years should be enough time in a nursery bed, but I have some @ 3 years due to delay in getting the orchard site ready.

1 Like

As in Copenhaven, Denmark?

You must be thinking of Copenhagen, Dansmark.

1 Like

Your right, where’s Copenhaven?

Copenhaven nursery is in Gaston, Oregon.

I read a old post from several years ago last night entitled “what things would you do different with your garden/orchard if you could” or similar. The top pic from almost every person was related to spacing, planning, or laying out the design ahead of time. Seems like good advice from the team to put them in close proximity but dont put them all in a permanent spot yet.

2 Likes

Here is what a nursery bed of mine looks like.

8 Likes

Hi Aiden, I have to applaud your ambition! Given your large numbers you will need a very efficient pest control process. My best advice from what I have gained over the last 15-20 years is mostly about insect control. Not sure what pest you face in Wisconsin, but here in Kent, Wa my most significant apple pests are coddling moth and apple maggot fly. So my spray technique is adopted to defeating those two pests. I also use the same for stone fruit and it seems to work fairly well, since my primary insecticide is Bonide. I use liquid copper during dormant season once or twice, we get a lot of rain here in winter, so I use liquid copper in the fall and several times in Feb- March prior to bud swell.

I use no chemicals on apples or stone fruit until well after blossom fall and about when fruit is the size of a quarter, I start with the following chemical spray mixture.

2 Gallons of water, dissolve about 8 Oz of Kayolin clay and mix well, once dissolved I add the Bonide Fruit spray, and a few ounce’s of 20 Mule Team borax for a surfactant. A key to dissolving the clay to prevent sprayer clogging, is to first mix it in a small amount of cold water, shake well to make a slurry, then add remaining water up to 2 gal. During the spraying keep shaking the sprayer periodically to keep the clay in solution. The key to using Kayolin clay is covering each fruit a minimum of 3 times on the first spray effort, allowing the clay and insecticide to dry on the fruit between each spray. (The importance of getting a good initial coating, especially around the fruit stem cannot be over emphasized!) This gives each piece of fruit a nice protective coating holding the chemical to kill most any grubs that arrive to feed. Also be sure to get coverage of all foliage to assure any insects residing on the tree has adequate exposure and opportunity to feed on the coating. (See note below on the life cycle of the Apple Maggot fly to understand why the coating is so critical). At either a two week interval, or immediately after any significant rainfall, repeat the spray. This is done until several weeks before fruit ripens.

When you gather the fruit, do not remove the clay coating until ready to eat or market, then wash carefully with warm, soapy water and rinse until the white sheen is removed.

Adults Apple Magog flies

The first AM adults emerge from the soil from mid-June to early July. Peak emergence occurs during mid- to late July and is usually completed by the end of August. Emergence patterns vary considerably among different geographic locations and even within a specific area, depending on the host and environmental parameters, particularly temperature, soil type, and rainfall. Female flies are black, about 5.2 mm in length, with a wingspan of about 9.3 mm. They have a pointed abdomen with four white cross bands. The males are smaller and have three cross bands on a rounded abdomen. AM wings are clear and marked with characteristic black bands. Newly emerged flies are sexually immature and spend considerable time on apple leaves feeding on honeydew excreted by aphids and other insects. The flies mature sexually 7 to 10 days after emergence and congregate on the fruit, where mating occurs. After mating, the female punctures the apple skin with her ovipositor to lay eggs. Females can lay an average of about 300 eggs over a 30-day life span.

Website on Kaolin Clay for fruit protection:

http://www.groworganicapples.com/organic-orcharding-articles/surround-kaolin-clay.php/

Carbaryl

Carbaryl. Carbaryl is an older insecticide, typically sold under the trade name Sevin which can be highly effective against codling moth when applied during periods of egg hatch. It can provide control for a longer period than other treatments, typically 14-21 days.
Good luck!
Dennis
Kent, Wa

4 Likes

I live in Wisconsin. If I waited until the apples were the size of a quarter to use insect prevention, the whole crop would be a goner. The minute the petals fall I use Surround with Spinosad. I bag when 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Your quantity would need other means than bagging, of course.
[/quote]

3 Likes