Who says we have to tell anybody if we find them………
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Good question!
Many are the reasons that’s best…but other locations can work fine.
Here’s a couple things to think on:
Any experienced lumberjack/logger knows the best logs, the healthiest trees, are facing north and east directions.
Second, slopes drain colder air to the valley.
And, also, the northern side of a hill results in tree blooms that don’t bud out as early and get frostbitten as frequently.
I also have a broadfork. You suspect we can broadfork the planting area and beyond, plant in the ground and have good results?
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Certainly it couldn’t hurt.
But, my thought was to loosen the area 8 to 20 inches or so, not six or eight only.
You mentioned digging a hole and how slow the water drains. Is there a point you could dig to…say 18" or 36"? and have the soil drain?
(I say this for Kentucky has so very many different soil conditions across the eastern 2/3 of the state.)
If your planting holes are on a slope, you mentioned setting the dirt overhill and leaving a swale above–that should improve things a bunch.
I know you can’t gain the confidence of a lifetime from a few posts…but good luck and happy planting. Fall planting is very desirable in my opinion.
Thanks for the advice and vote of confidence. My thoughts about it all is that no matter how deep we dig here we find this solid clay. It’s the reason a septic lagoon is our best option opposed to a leach field. I figured we could do that kind of digging (24” or so) and plant, but won’t it just make the bath tub for the roots just a little bigger? We get 43” of rain per year, and that clay stays wet until mid july-august. I don’t want to kill a bunch of trees. Maybe I’m over thinking and We oughta just plant the tree in the ground and leave the back fill soil as it was with no amendments.
One reason to plant small trees is there isn’t the big ‘bathtub’ as you refer to the planting hole.
If I’m forced to plant a tree in a ‘bathtub’ for a customer…I never give it a warranty!
Unfortunately deer are a bigger problem if you plant smaller trees.
Over 45 inches rain here yearly, maybe 48 average. South of Lexington to Tennessee.
Hi Luke,
Welcome to the site. A year or so ago my Nephew in W Tenn who works in soil testing gave m some advice on CEC that has served me well. I have long been an avid composer and now I more fully understand how improving the cation exchange capacity of any soil is the best way to proceed before any major planting occurs.
I grew up in w Tenn where red clay and many other types of soil abound so I am familiar with your challenge, but have no fear those clay soils can be turned into very productive ones with very little investment. One idea since you are on hilly terrain and you have a tractor with backhoe would be to create on the downhill slope of your orchard a drain field for excess water to escape to avoid possible flooding of your trees.
Below is a list of article I have used to amend my soils here and you may also find them useful. I can tell you that there is no better soil amendment than compost to improve clay soils. Any kind or organic humus you can get your hands on from horse manure from the bluegrass barns to cotton hulls from a nearby cotton gin can add the organics you need to amend your clay soils in the planting holes.
Good luck and good reading.
BTW I like your seedling idea, once they get going you can graft on any variety you choose.
Take care
Dennis
Kent, wa
Soil science and CEC articles
Benefits of soil organisms: Soil Organism - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
Do earthworms create humus?
Earthworms can eat their weight in organic matter and soil each day to create nutrient rich castings. Earthworms help create humus—a dark brown-black type of soil which holds important nutrients in place for plant growth and use.
How Does Humus Help Plants Live?
Municipal leaf waste nutrient components
Benefits of nitrogen fixing legumes, crimson clover best winter cover crop to plant in spring. Alfalfa, white and red clovers are perennials.
https://www.soils4teachers.org/biology-life-soil
Nutrient availability influence of CEC:
https://www.soilquality.org.au/factsheets/cation-exchange-capacity
Welcome, and excited for you! You have a beautiful spot!
You should invest in Michael Phillips book " The Apple Grower" also anything else by this guy. He recently passed but he is a treasure trove of info for growing apples both for personal purposes or commercially with an organic and affordable focus. He is a true pioneer and trend setter and has done it. Check him out
Our street is a winding one lane road that meanders through cattle country. I could drive the tractor to the neighbors and scoop out their barns I’m sure. My concern would be if their hay was treated or not with herbicide. I don’t want to spread that stuff around and a lot of this land is primarily hay production.
All this said I think I’m going to explore the subsoiler option. They don’t seem too expensive, and one could be used to make 2 or three passes in the planting area to break up a wide and deep planting hole. Hopefully that helps the trees establish, and without amending the hole the soil will probably compact over a few years to negate the worry of pooling water underneath. I’m not sure what to do about mulching just yet, the local town is very small and municipal yard waste will be minimal.
Next I’m going to try to figure out irrigation on land with no infrastructure….
Understand your concern about herbicides. You have enough organics growing in the pics you posted to start a huge compost today, just mow the grass around you and combine it 50/50 ration with the leaves from your forrest and you will have the makings of a perfect compost pile. Keep it wet and let it do what nature does best. After you turn it over a few times it would be all you need to amend the clay soil.
Dennis
Kent, wa
Is top dressing with mulch enough? Im kinda thinking the pots will get washed out if I wait. It’s also a lot of work to keep them watered in our heat. The mix is mostly peat, perlite, compost and a small bit of clay. Maybe I can go back over time next year and rip a few more trenches and apply the compost there?
Top dressing with an organic mulch, even wood chips is always a benefit for several reasons; just do not mulch more than 1-2” within 3” if the trunk:
- Conserves moisture, which
- Attracts earthworms wich help aerate and fertilize by converting the organics into worm castings( adding some River sand to the mulch layer will accelerate worm activity by giving them the grit they use to grind up what they consume).
Actually Luke
You would be better off to just dig those pots into your soil and mulch them to conserve watering, but wait until they are dormant to transplant. Transplanting now in summer heat will shock them so much that you may lose some. There is nothing to be gained from transplanting now
Dennis
Kent wa
I had no idea. I really enjoyed his books and educational videos. He had a great way of writing that was informative and witty.
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Yea that’s the idea. We’re going to plant in the fall. Just trying to gear up now and get a plan and course of action together by October. The property is 1.5 hours away and I only make it down two to three days per week.
I have mr Phillips’ book and devoured his videos. He had an amazing system.
Just a thought…you maybe should get some deer repellent spray or some pepper spray…young apple trees are one of their favorite foods!
They’ll definitely be in cages with tree trunk guards until a permanent deer fence is put in next year.
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