Advice on Starting New Mini-Orchard in 6b, South of Boston

LOL, well even birds have priorities. And yes, cherries trump mulberries.

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Black knot is a serious problem. It forced me to give up all sweet cherries, all Asian plums, and almost all European plums. Wild black cherries are abundant here, and they provide an insuperable reservoir of disease.

Blossom rot is so bad in apricots that I’ve given up them too.

Oriental fruit moth exists but it must have a natural enemy. The less I fight it, the less it is a problem.

Plum curculio is a serious problem, but it is vulnerable to well-timed spraying. Also it seems to favor certain species / varieties. Sometimes one sacrificial tree can aid the others.

Coddling moth, yes.

All that said, I expend a ton of effort trying to select varieties that are resistant to the most common and destructive diseases. I won’t plant any pears or apples that are susceptible to fireblight or scab. My apples are all at least somewhat resistant to cedar apple rust – there’re probably 100 cedars within 100 yards.

As a result, I can get by with (1) a dormant oil spray, (2) copper sulphate for peach leaf curl and other early fungi, (3) a spray after petal drop for plum curculio, and (4) a spray later of apples only for coddling moth.

With attention to disease-resistant varieties, it is possible to raise the following without any spray at all other than the dormant oil: Asian and American persimmons, mulberries, figs, Asians pears, European pears, Chinese chestnuts, pawpaws. Peaches require only the one spray for peach leaf curl (yes, you will lose some of the crop but a standard tree will produce more than you can use). Apples can by with only 2 sprays for plum curculio and coddling moth. Also, russet skinned apples seem fairly uninteresting to insect pests.

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How long have you had your trees?

I have just under 30 varieties of figs in pots. I also started a few Oscar and Kokuso mulberries in December, which are still in pots. I might keep them in pots until I’m ready to put the in ground. I have none of the fruit trees I mentioned above at this point. I am still researching which 6 varieties of dwarf fruit trees to plant. Nothing set in stone yet, but I plan on starting to order some trees very soon, as they become available.

This is why I came to this forum and seek the expert advice of the fine folks of this forum. I want to make sure that I’m making the best possible selection for the types and varieties of fruit that I will be putting in ground, in the area illustrated in the original picture.

Thank you for the introductions! I don’t mind copper or sulfur spraying. I am a little hesitant on using pesticides, given the proximity of my large organic vegetable garden. However, if the absolute need arises, I will consider it. My preference however is not to use pesticides on my property if possible.

I believe that no one wants to use pesticide or fungicide, either. It is just because where we are and what we want to grow that dictate the need to use it. Scott Smith, the founder of this forum grows fruit trees mostly with organic approach in Maryland. Here is the guide on low impact spray.

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I meant to ask @jrd51, not you Marco, how long he has grown fruit trees in RI.

In our area, when you grow them for five years or fewer, you often see less pest and disease pressure. The problems increase, the longer you have the trees esp. stone fruit.

@mrsg47 used to live in Newport, RI. She had experience with growing fruit in our area and the pest and diseases we have.

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WElcome Marco! I’m in the SW Boston area as well. Just got started 3 years ago but let me know if I can help. Still haven’t given up on Sweet cherries or apricots but may soon…Deer are my worst problem at this point…

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@mamuang – That’s a good point. As noted, I won’t even try cherries or Asian plums. I used to live in Sharon MA and every tree there died suddenly from black knot after 3-4 years, Here in Bristol RI, I tried apricots three times but gave up.

We’ve lived here since 2012, so 10 years. I planted peaches, persimmons, Chinese chestnuts, and a few apples in 2015. All did well except the apples – I failed to protect the trunks and 2 of 3 were girdled by rabbits. I added another persimmon and both an Asian pear and some European pears in 2017. And I’ve added lot more apples later.

I take your point, however. It took a few years for peach leaf curl to show up. Plum curculio seems to be getting progressively worse.

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Hello and thank you for the warm welcome! Would you kindly share which varieties you have and if you are happy with them or would do things over if you had the chance. Also, could you kindly point me in the right direction as to where you sourced your trees? I appreciate any feedback, as I am at the very first steps learning about fruit trees.

My goal is to set myself up for minimal maintenance

Not going to happen. I could post my maintenance log to prove it but I’d rather not discourage you because it’s well worth the effort. Plan to prune, shape, fence, net and spray (a lot). Dwarfing rootstocks need strong structural supports against nor’easters and hurricanes. That weed barrier may give way to bare ground once the voles living under it girdle some trunks.

Rootstock choice is very important, don’t believe advertised sizes. Your spacing seems generous but keep in mind that height control is still important if you want to limit maintenance. Spraying overhead is a miserable job and pruning, bagging and harvesting over shoulder level will require a ladder and you’ll wish it was taller, and was an orchard style one.

The cost of deer fencing is something to consider in your plot plan. A linear fence 60 feet long takes a lot more fence than a square or circular one enclosing the same area. Super-dwarfed rootstocks allow for tighter spacing so you could use that broad area by the driveway pretty efficiently.

Mulberries are a special case in New England, they are quite well adapted here. I turfed out genetically dwarfed Girardi mulberries because they grew too big and fast. Own-root mulberries get to be monstrous trees here in a very short time. Avoid any grafted onto Russian white mulberry rootstocks, they sucker like crazy and get even more monstrous more quickly. One mulberry tree left to its own devices would completely dominate the space you have allocated.

We have identical stone fences to that one in your photo on three sides of our yard. If that stone fence is yours then I recommend you to keep up with herbicides to suppress Asian bittersweet, Japanese honeysuckle and knotweed.

Hey,

Apples
(planted 3 years ago)
Multi V Mac, Grav, Yellow transparent, winesap
Multi V Nect (unsure what type), Apricot unsure what type, green gauge, shiro
Cortland
Liberty
Honeycrisp
Blue permaine
Lodi

Just planted last year:
like 15 different ones and 4 crab

Nectarine

Independence
Fantasia

Cherries

Nugent
Montmorency
morello
black tart
ranier

Multi V pluot
Multi V european

Asian Pears
Hosui X 2
Shinseki
Multi-V

I’m still working out the kinks. I agree with everyone about the spraying needs. I really was aggresive w/ bagging and orchard spray/surround/spinosad this time around and the apples/stone fruit look MUCH better. We have a crap ton of pests to worry about here… and now a large deer has found our orchard and I’m working my way towards building a taller fence. Always someone after the treats… I do wish there was local meet up to discuss tricks and ways to improve our orchards… Happy to chat more about the other apple types by DM. Check out Skillcut on You tube… lots of good content. Going to try grafting next year. I also found this site a little late and didnt’ realize that people have tried the Dave Wilson nursery strategy up here and failed… I have some 4-1 and 3-1 and thinking about digging those up and expanding…So much to do!!

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Oh Also places I purchased them:

Fedco (Most of the Apples)
Stark Bro
Trees of Antiquity
Raintree (Most of the stone fruit)
Home depot… I rescued them :slight_smile:

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Ahhh… @SMC_zone6 is who I got my first fig cuttings from: Unk Green Greek, Gino’s Black, LSU Tiger and CLBC. Also got my Oscar and Kokuso cuttings from him! So happy to bump into Steven again here! A very fine local expert for me!

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Marco, welcome. I did see the picture of your land and thought, perfect place for fruit trees. My first question however is your choice of fruit trees. What your choices say. . . They are all on dwarf rootstock and you do not want to do a lot of pruning and want to keep your orchard manageable. I would forget the dwarf varieties and go to semi-dwarf rootstocks and prune instead. Your variety choices will be far better quality than the fruit designated to dwarf varieties. I think of the dwarf varieties growing in large redwood tubs on patios, you are lucky enough to have land. Mamuangs question regarding spraying, I did not read through all of your responses but I do hope you are prepared,.Out of a total of 18 years of growing fruit trees in Newport, RI, the first three years were blissful. Little fruit, as the trees were just getting started. At one point I had 40 trees. Backed off to 23. The first wake up call came with learning about peach tree borers. They didn’t kill my peaches, but they killed a nectarine and a Bavay green euro plum. When you start to lose trees and not just fruit its time to spray. Hopefully you will learn from this and spray from the beginning. Do not waste your time and save your trees. Also, protection for your trees. I used very strong black plastic mesh bought at home depot in rolls. I cut it into three foot tall pieces, and tied the sides together to form circles with plastic covered twist ties. Large tubes of heavy mesh… A weed eater would not cut through this mesh. Make one for every tree. And buy netting. American Netting company is excellent.

Spray tanks. You will need pesticide, fungicide, copper, your choice of oil (neem?) and a sticker. A heavy duty fungicide is necessary as we are close to the sea. Mamuang can fill you in on all of the latest excellent sprays. And Kaolin (Surround( a natural clay for spraying).

Apples that worked for me, Pristine, Mott Pink, Jonagold (takes two pollinators as it is a triploid). Ananas Reinette, and Calville Blanc d’Hiver. I had 9 apples (these are the standouts).

Plums: Italian Prune Plums, Bavay and three mirabelles. The Mirabelles took a while to catch on and give fruit as did the Prune plum. About 5-7 years.

Peaches: Black Boy, Elberta ( a peach I could count on annually), Early Crawford, my Shui mi Tao, Chinese white peach took time but the few I had were excellent. And Indian Free.

Apricots: Harglow and Tomcot (three total). Produced two apricots in too many years I would not bother.; Our springs are too cold and kill the blossoms and fruit.

One pear tree with five grafted varieties. (Squirrels favorite tree). Pear William, Flemish beauty, seckle, and two others. A Separate Abate Fetel.

Raspberries: Anna, Jewel, Bristol, Red, Kiwi Gold.

Blackberries: Ouachita

Grapes: Concord, and two varieties from U of Arkansas. Hope and and a red table grape (can’t remember the name).

Strawberries. Red Alpine, Mara des Bois, and a few others.

And four large black currants, two red, one white and one pink.

These trees and shrubs took a tremendous amount of work. Pruning, spraying, weeding, more spraying, digging holes. . . The full monty! The the plants and trees mentioned work in your zone. I would take a closer look. And listen to Mamuang who is your neighbor and really knows her stuff! Hope this helps. Oh, and a Montmorency cherry. Huge tree.

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Loved your post. Thank you for all the details and the education. That makes a lot of sense. However, that would bring the number of trees I could place in that area from 8 to 6, including the 2 mulberries I am growing, provided that I place the mulberries on each end and give them 20 feet from the adjacent trees. The 4 trees in between should probably be spaced 15 feet apart. I would probably select to have the following:

- The Oscar Mulberry I currently have in a pot
- An apple, semi dwarf (Liberty, ok with my existing crabapples)
- A peach, semi dwarf (Red Haven)
- An Asian pear (Nijisseiki)
- Maybe a sweet cherry, semi dwarf (TBD: Lapins, Black and Gold, Stella or Sweetheart)…Not entirely convinced yet about a cherry tree being a great choice.
- The Kokuso Mulberry I’m currently growing in a pot

I have another 50 ft stretch of property along the perimeter, adjacent to this space pictured above, that I still need to manually clear. It’s basically a big mound of dirt with brush and weeds. I could put a persimmon, a few hardy in ground figs and a few boysenberries that I currently have in pots in that area and would grow espaliered.

I came to this forum to seek education and I am definitely getting what I was looking for. Thank you!

I have several varieties of Asian pear. The one you want is also called 20 th Century. Taste wise, I would not recommend it. There are others that taste better and larger. Korean Giant aka Olympic, Kosui, Hosui, etc.

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Good to see you here, Marco. Hopefully those plants are doing well. And hopefully you’re getting some of these rains that keep skipping over my orchard.

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@Marco

Based on my experience, I’d trash the cherry. Odds are high that black knot will kill whatever you plant. If the tree survives, birds will get your crop. It’s very difficult to net an entire semi-dwarf tree. Finally, you can buy very good cherries in any grocery store.

I like to grow fruit myself when I can’t get the best quality and/or desired quantity at a store at an affordable price. That’s why I grow figs and berries and peaches. And why I’m trying pawpaws. In your shoes, I’d probably stick with the persimmon. If you didn’t own Nikita’s Gift I’d suggest IKKJ.

Finally, while I’ve grown Liberty and I think it’s perfectly fine (moderately sweet, acidic), there are other disease-resistant choices. For taste I’d prefer Enterprise (though you might find the skin tough). Liberty is a lot like what you find in the store; given that, I might go for something different such as Roxbury Russet. It’s a little vulnerable to rust but otherwise disease-resistant. And the russet-skinned apples seems naturally resistant to bugs, which prefer red fruit with thinner skin. And the taste is great. You just need consumers (i.e., your kids) who will eat an apple with a brownish-green skin.

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Black knot only attacked my plums never the cherry tree or any other fruit tree.