All things tractors thread


#201

Bought it. I’ll be using it for many years at this place.


#202

Now that’s a hoss tractor, 75hp! Hope it works out well for ya. Standard shift or auto? Looks like 4wd as well? Nice loader, mower and that tree extractor is a beast.

We have lots of 1-3" diameter saplings around the farm I’d like to get rid of, but like you, I worry about them damaging my bush hog blade. I think the one inchers are OK, but I try to avoid the bigger ones.

I have a lot of bush-hogging to do before spring starts in earnest and everything turns into a jungle. It looks pretty unassuming now, so I need to get after it. It’s just been so wet and cold the last few weeks, so have to wait for it to dry out.

Are things still dormant there, or are they waking up?


#203

Seems things are waking up here. Seeing buds and growth in a lot of places. No massive pollen attacks yet but not far away. It’s a shuttle shift. Forward-reverse lever. Clutch. Low,medium,high times 4 speed. 12 forward 12 reverse. Yes it is 4 wheel drive and has a foot pedal driven rear differential lock. Very strong tractor. I hope it stays this way. So far it’s been all I’ll ever need.


#204

Good solid 5 hours of steady rain today. Should be very good for things.


#205

Do you have allergy issues? So far I’ve been alright in that category, but last summer it was very warm and humid, so it was kind of a problem for me.

12 gears forward and back, that should be enough for you. Wish I had 4wd on my tractor, I’d like to plow our steep driveway when we get these snows. I’m a bit leery about getting out there on a snowy hillside.

I know this is the tractor thread, but how are all your new trees doing?


#206

I take an allergy pill every day all year. Spring and fall are murderous here. Oak and pine leave the cars green! It actually chokes me sometimes but I get through it. Thanks for asking about my trees. Everything appears to be doing very well. I got fruit from my elderberry and fig in 17 and just planted two new peach, 2 pawpaw about Christmas and 2 mulberry and new crabapple about the same time. I’m going to try my hand at spraying weekend after next if we don’t have immediate rain forecast. And yes 4 wheel makes a massive difference.


#207

Looked at one of those for my skid steer yesterday. Keep us posted on how it works, if it works as good as the vids, thats a fine piece of equipment.


#208

Continuing this from the weather thread, regarding my starter issues with my truck:

Thanks. I did some measurements while my wife cranked the ignition in the cab. There didn’t seem to be any major drops. But, what I found very interesting was that when I put the positive lead of the voltmeter on the positive battery post, and then the negative lead on the positive lead of the starter relay, I got -12V when the ignition was cranked. Is that’s what’s supposed to happen?


#209

Bob, just answered over in the weather thread. But one additional thing, I realized Iam a bit unclear of your terminology. When you say starting relay, do you mean a relay on the fender or somewhere in the engine compartment. Or are you referring to the starter solenoid, that tomato paste can sized thing right on top of the starter motor? Both are really relays of a sort. That might make some diff here.


#210

The starter relay is a small round black Vienna sausage can-sized device that’s attached to the upper firewall near the battery. It has two large posts, which I assume are the contacts, and a smaller connector that I believe connects to the ignition switch. Here is a pic I got from the web which looks like mine:

The top post has zero resistance to ground. I don’t know if it’s supposed to or not. Maybe it was a bad idea, but I used that post to connect the negative lead of the jumper cable to the negative lead of the good battery when we were trying to give the bad battery a boost. I hope I didn’t fry something in the process. It read zero ohms to chassis ground before and after the jump attempt.

It looks like two thick wires from the battery hooks into those contacts, and then there are other wires that I think go over to the alternator and down towards the starter. I assume it connects to the starter solenoid.

I read your suggestions about doing some direct connects with the starter solenoid. I can’t easily reach it as it’s up under the block and not really accessible. We are going to try to remove it (solenoid and starter, they are one unit) tomorrow and then try hitting it with some battery voltage to see if it cranks. If it does then we have some kind of wiring snafu.

Something that also crossed my mind was could the tranny interlock be wonky and not allow it to start?

Answering your question about the voltage I read between the ground post and the negative post on the starter relay. I had originally said it was between the positive posts, I was mistaken. It’s between the negative posts. I put the positive lead of the meter on the negative battery post, and the negative meter lead on the negative relay starter post. With that meter orientation, that’s where I get the -12V when the key is turned to the ignition position.

It’s all weird, but maybe we’ll get some answers tomorrow.


#211

Yup that’s a starting relay. Typically those are used to put more current to the starter solenoid “start” connection, without that extra current going thru the ignition switch. But it looks like they also used its post for some other electrical connections too. Without seeing your car’s wiring diagram, it would be hard to say for sure. But I would guess that the upper (thinner) wire on this relay probably goes to the starter solenoid’s “start” terminal. You can check it out when you pull the starter with an ohm meter. Or perhaps you’d like to see what the voltage is at that top terminal when the starter is trying to run. But if you’ve tried jumping (eg shorting the two big terminals on the relay) and that did not change the starting behavior (it should have made the starter try to go without the key being at start), that’s probably as good a test.

Oh, the top big post on the relay probably isn’t ground. It likely gets connected to the bottom big post (battery and alt) when the start signal comes in, so if it were ground then you’d have one heck of a short. It may measure close to ground cause it probably goes to the start terminal on the solenoid, which is pretty low resistance (<1ohm), so might look like ground but probably isn’t. I try to use a clean spot on the engine as my ground reference. That is a reliable ground. I think if you measure voltage between that top terminal and the engine when the key is in start, you’ll see ~12v.

One other test which is fairly quick, put your hand on the relay and have someone turn the key to start. You should feel a click as the relay operates. And if you can get to the solenoid on the starter do the same there. Again you should feel a click as those electro magnets energize. If not whichever isn’t clicking is where the problem starts (may be the wiring to or the unit itself).

Tranny interlock could be involved. But again, if you can jump the starter terminal (the small one, which likely goes to the relay) that would get around any issues with the tranny switch, ignition switch, relay, etc. You might also try starting in N instead of P, sometimes that will make a diff.

If you pull the starter (be sure to disconnect the batt first) take a close look at the wires and connections there. If any are dirty/corroded, fix them first and retest before pulling, you might save some time. You can do a first level test at home, but that really isn’t the same as under load. I’ve had starters that would seem just fine on the garage floor, that were bad and failed under load when tested.

Good luck.


#212

I’ve been doing some thinking about what I just wrote, and did a bit more research, and read what you wrote. I mentioned that that exposed post is now shorted to chassis ground. That top exposed post is supposed to be one contact point between the positive battery post and the starter. When the ignition switch is energized that little orange wire shoots a voltage to a coil inside this device. That coil is then energized and should cause these two posts to close, or short together. That in turn, should connect the positive battery voltage to the starter solenoid down below.

If that top post is shorted to ground, then when the ignition is started, the juice is going from the positive battery post straight to chassis ground thru that post. That may be why it won’t start when these two posts are shorted. Because you are essentially shorting the battery to ground.

One way to make sure I’m not reading a low coil resistance across the starter solenoid or starter motor at that top post is to disconnect everything connected to these posts. If the post is still shorted to ground, then it has to be a bad device.

So, that’s an idea, it may be wrong headed, but it’s worth a try. I’m tempted to go down to the truck now and try it, but it’s almost 1am, so it’s off to bed.

Thanks Steve again, for the suggestions, I’ll keep y’all updated.


#213

Sounds like a good test, pulling all the wires to the relay and seeing if that top relay terminal still reads 0 resistance to ground. While the wires are off, you can also check the resistance between the two big posts. Should be infinite when the relay is idle and close to 0 resistance when you apply 12v to that start terminal (the small one the orange wire is on) or when someone turns the key to start with the orange wire connected. You can also listen/feel for the click when you energize the relay.

BTW, if you were reading the -12v between the top big post of the relay and the neg batt terminal, that makes more sense. If you had reversed the meter leads (neg meter to neg battery and pos meter to the terminal), you’d have read +12v, which is what I would have expected when the relay is telling the starter to run. So that fits…

Let us know what you find.


#214

Well, I just got back from messing with the truck. I took off the wires from the starter relay to see if the top post is still shorted to ground. It is now open, which it should be. So, I guess I was measuring the resistance of the solenoid coil, which is very low (<5 ohms). Oh well, at least that possiblity has been eliminated.

I crawled up under the engine compartment to see how to get to the starter. It’s in a very cramped space, so it’s going to be a bear to get out. I think I ought to remove the tire from that side along with the wheel well to make access a bit easier.


#215

Update: I am in the process of getting the starter out, but a lack of a deep 13mm socket has me stymied for now. It’s needed for one last bolt that’s holding the starter in. Plus it’s late and has started with light rain again. I had a tarp down underneath me, but my backside was quite soaked. Good to be back inside with some dry clothes on. So, I’m going to borrow the socket from my BIL and hopefully I can finish the job soon. The weather is supposed to be wet again tomorrow, but I don’t need much time. Before I go through the trouble of totally removing the starter, I’m going to do a thorough continuity test of all the wires that go down in there.

It was a chore getting everything unbolted, the starter is up under the block, so it’s best accessed from below. It is a very tight fit up under there, even for someone as thin as I am. It helped to take the right wheel well out, it made it easier to get to some of the bolts. There are two mounting bolts, and three other bolts that attach the wires to the starter. While I was under there, I got a close up look at the leaking tranny pan, which is going to need to be fixed next.


#216

Your not going to have any current on both post till the little wire gets juice from turning the key. Also The electromagnet has to get a charge from the small wire. When that magnet slams open it connects the two large wires making it one large wire running from the battery to the starter. When you let off on the key it slides back the other way creating a gap in the wires which closes the circuit and kills the power to the starter. If that magnet goes bad you can jump the two large studs together with a screwdriver to complete the circuit but the key will have to be in the run position for the motor to start.
If it starts by jumping with the screwdriver you need a new solenoid. If it doesn’t check that your wires are not corroded and have good connections not loose at the solenoid and the starter. If that’s good you can rotate the motor. Sometimes the bendex can get stuck. If none of that works it’s your starter.You need clean battery terminals and connectors
too. Providing your battery is good. Both the large post are positive. one connects the battery and the other connects the starter. both are connected to each other with the switch or that little electric coin magnet. They shouldn’t be grounded.


#217

If you pulled your starter you can check it by clamping a jumper cable from the pos battery to the positive bolt on the starter. Hold it tight against the bench or floor and use the neg cable from the battery to the casing of the starter. It should spark and spin the motor. If it just sparks and the motor wont spin you need a starter.


#218

Thanks John. I’m about to go down and work on it some more. It’s been raining (shocking!) this morning, so I’ve been waiting for it to stop for a bit. It’s sitting the grass driveway, which is kinda damp, so it’s been a nasty job.

The starter relay is working like it should, so that isn’t the problem.

First thing I’m going to do is do a continuity test of the cables before I finish taking out the starter.

We tried rotating the motor a bit, and it still didn’t crank.

I could do the starter test you suggested and see what state the starter’s in. Should the starter shoot out its gear a bit when it’s energized?

After all this, I’m suspecting the starter (or it’s solenoid) is shot. I’m not going to buy a new one at the store, I can get a refurbished one from eBay for half the price of a new one. I just will have to wait a few days for shipping.


#219

Bob

You might want to check out reburbished starter prices at your local big box auto stores. They typically are quite a bit better than new prices and come with a lifetime warantee usually. Buying used/rebuilt parts mail order has some risk, only in that there are varying degrees of what some people/companies consider “rebuilt”. And even if it is guaranteed, the delays and labor to remove and return a defective part can be an issue. Not saying it isn’t a good deal, just to beware.


#220

Yes that little gear should shoot out fast and the starter should jump a bit as it is in your hand while holding it down. It will kick about a 1/2 in your hand unless you have a super grip on it. If it’s just sparking and having a hard time turning or not turning it is amping out and needs to be rebuilt. Rebuilds are about $30 with your core. You should have an alternator starter shop nearby. You can take it to them to get it tested too. They usually have a metal bench that’s grounded to the battery. They set the starter on the bench so it’s grounded and touch the hot to the pos bolt. Let us know how you do.