Super like, thanks for sharing this link!
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Breadroll is from the breeding of Jerry Lehman, tree ID is 425-17. From his newest orchard. So early 21st century. Turns out it’s not that great though.
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I would assume Dooley persimmon comes from Kenneth Dooley who was in Indiana and a member of NNGA / INFGA. He and Gordon were in contact. Late 20th century.
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According to his website, Ken is a producer of tree seeds, not fruit cultivars.
The studies that used genetic markers are false.
I found some notes made by U.P.Hedrick. Maybe they will be helpful at least a little.
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Thank you, that’s very helpful.
I wondered though about persimmon articles that reference it. Of the 75 citations known to Google Scholar, there is only one concerned with persimmon and it’s written in Italian!
https://www.jstor.org/stable/42881299
Here’s the electronic copy of Hedrick’s Cyclopedia on Google Books:
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I compared Hedrick’s descriptions with Pipher photos and ripening time. I belive it could be ‘Glidewell’…
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Which of James Claypool’s cultivars (if any) are D. virginiana tetraploid x hexaploid (or vis a vis)?
I don’t think that’s possible? I would say none.
None. It’s look like the embryo need complete chromosome pairs to proper growth.He tried many crosses between Fehrman and Garretson with 0 seeds as the result. Gehrone offspring is intresting, it should be less seedy than typical but I’m not sure why only one plant is/was alive (Gehrone x Garretson). Maybe Gehrone posses some infertility gene or have unproper chromosome number eg. 89,5 or 91…
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Candidates to be free of Early Golden ancestry:
Craggs, Ennis (tetraploid), Gehron (tetraploid), Golden Supreme, Juhl, Miller, Morris Burton, Penland (tetraploid), Pipher, Wabash.
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https://growingfruit.org/t/persimmon-wood-anticipated-to-be-available-this-winter/13050/2
See the last post by Dax.
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This may not be the appropriate place to ask this question, but the appropriate individuals are following this thread.
Other than Early Golden, are there any known wild selections which impart the genetic preference for female offspring?
As EG has obviously stood the test of time, I’d expect finding additional trees with this trait could yield similarly favorable fruit quality. I realize that is a big assumption. I am thinking about it from the perspective that someone thousands of years ago discovered PCNA kakis and domesticated them; It’s possible there are virginiana persimmon genetics not yet discovered (re-discovered?) with favorable fruit qualities or traits similar to EG. For it to be discovered (by European descendents) or at least reported 2 centuries ago and still be considered the best by many, it’s a very special tree.
Buzz has probably planted just about as many seedlings to select for cold hardiness as anyone on this forum, based on my understanding.
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On average, should be about 5%. Hexaploid genetics show a doping effect where more copies of the gene for male flowers triggers differentiation where both male and female flowers occur on the same plant. It looks like 4 copies of the male gene are the bend point. 4, 5, or 6 copies = male. 3 copies looks like can make both male and female flowers. 1 or 2 copies always produces female flowers except if there is a mutation which can happen where a single limb on an otherwise female tree starts producing male flowers. This is unproven, but is the most viable explanation of the observations.
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Geneva Pumpkin is nearly 100% related with EG. I couldn’t find any notes from Slate that he grow any other male flowering genotypes than Garretson and EG at Geneva.
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There are several DNA genes associated with gametes in flowering trees. The base group of them are responsible for sex origination. Linkage (cooperation) of these genes are not guaranteed, especially in Diospyros which is diverging from dioecy. Consequently one or more origination messages can be sent via RNA to the DNA architectural genes. There are several levels of architectural genes, each of which signal downstream levels via RNA. Physiologies of dioecy, monoecy, gynomonoecy, and andromonoecy are all observed in D. virginiana communities.
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@Lech
‘Golden Supreme’ is a worrisome name. A person could infer that it means ‘Improved Early Golden’. Are there physical differences to dispel this theory?
No. This type of mutation is probably very rare and fresh selection from wild are rare now.
I assume if someone use a mutagenetic treatment on wild seeds eg. by DMS. The chances of sexual mutants should be higher than in wild populations, but still a bulk amount of seeds will be needed.
J-PCNA kakis share same ancestry in some point of their history. If the breeding programs were build like ; F1 - EG x unrelated wild trees = selection for taste differences and male limbs → F2… and furter - best tree from each cross of previous generation ; then we should maintain a balance between inbreeding, fruit quality and breeding potential.
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