I think you reached for the best fruit first. Maybe you have a sixth sense, or maybe they were the ones with more blush.
Hi everyone, I really appreciate all the feedback and discussion. I’ve spent the last few weeks researching all the suggestions and locating scion wood. Here’s a list of what I’ve ordered. Some has already arrived and some still to go. Rootstock will be G41. It’s ordered from Cummins and due to arrive early March. I could actually use it sooner with warm weather we’re having. Any additional feedback would be appreciated.
Smoothskin Golden Del
Goldrush
Empress Spur Golden Del
Sundance
Enterprise
Liberty
Sungold
Williams’ Pride
Summer Champion
Bevan’s Favorite
Keener Seedling
Cauley
Horse
Yates
Fall Limbertwig
Kentucky Limbertwig
Caney Fork Limbertwig
Red Limbertwig
Dula
Ashmeads
Kinnairds Choice
Myers Royal Limbertwig
Brushy Mtn
Old-fashioned Limbtwg
Suncrisp
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Beachwreck,
Sounds like you’ll be very busy. Have fun. And keep us updated on which varieties emerge as your “winners.”
Beachwreck
You are off to a great start! I don’t have any trees on G-41, but wish my entire orchard was on G-41 based on all the positive research I have seen.
Once your grafts take and you plant them, I would stake every individual tree rather than counting on a 4 or 5 wire trellis for support.
You’ve seen a lot of positive reviews on G-41 Blue? I haven’t seen any, but I’ve not been studying too much lately. Does G-41 exhibit the graft union breakage like some of Geneva’s other offerings?
Maybe I’ll have to look into it. The only report I’ve seen suggested G-41 fumigated trees exceeded the yield of Bud 9 and M9 in unfumigated plantings (GoodFruit Grower). I’m unclear on what to make of that. The fact that fumigation was even mentioned makes me dubious of the outcome or general implied claims. I wasn’t aware that soil/ground fumigation was even a “thing” with apples.
Everything I’ve ever read concerning Geneva rootstocks has been negative. Again, I’m out of the loop and I know you stay pretty “tuned-in”.
I’m looking to maybe order a few dwarfing stocks…is G-41 still available anywhere?
Appleseed
Most of the information I read on G-41 indicated it is probably better than B-9 in most ways. Better resistance to FB, resistance to root rot and Wooly Apple Aphids and better yield. I understand that graft breakage can be a big problem however.
I was not able to buy the variety I wanted on Geneva, so I had to settle for B-9. For small quantity of any Geneva rootstocks, I would check Cummings.
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Hey Blue…I was just reading a bit on it and came across a post from this board. I forget now who the poster was, but he posted a photo of some G.41 rootstock he ordered from Cummins, I think. It had like zero root structure. They had told him it was normal for G.41. I was shocked at that.
He posted a follow up and sure enough…they didn’t survive.
Worse yet, I discovered that G.41 does indeed have issues with graft union breakage and oddly it is said the issue worsens as the tree ages. I wouldn’t have thought that even though obviously wind loads etc increase. I’d have thought that at some point the union would fully mend. Guess not.
I think I’ll stick with a more time proven rootstock. I’ve seen so many fabulous photos of heavy bearing trees on B9 and others that I’m not so inclined to try something new.
I’m sure there are plenty of folks who have had good success with the G.41 though.
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Appleseed
I remember reading about the G-41 rootstocks with no roots on this forum. I was planning to purchase some G-41 and even called Cummings for clarification. I did not get the response I hoped for so I did not order them.
I have a big commitment to B-9, so its too late for me to change. I’m having trouble getting my trees to the top wire (about 9-10 feet) or filling in the space between trees. Massive droughts 2 years in a row combined with FB in 2014 is part of the problem. I was attracted by the excellent yield/size of G-41 compared with B-9 which has been confirmed by the NC-140 rootstock trials my state. Based on what I just read, only some variety suffer from brittle graft unions and when the smaller size rootstocks are grafted or budded they have fewer problems. I appreciated that the information came from growers with lots of money at risk as opposed to university sponsored research
I got that information from this months “Good Fruit Grower” magazine. It has the most comprehensive discussion of rootstocks and planting/trellis methods I have ever seen ( including about 12 Geneva rootstocks). The fine print indicated that most of the information came from a panel discussion during the Washington State Tree Fruit growers meeting.
The very experienced apple specialist for NC suggested a N application of 150# per acre this year to stimulate my trees! That is almost 3X what I applied last year and I’m not completely comfortable with the amount of FB that could be introduced by all the new shoot growth, but I need to get most of the trees to grow a lot more!
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Blue…I know you’ve told me before, but I forget…how many trees per acre do you have? That 150 lbs. per acre doesn’t sound like much to me at all. What type of fertilizer…what N concentration (%). I thought it was 1 lb. first year and an additional lb. per year growth or 1" in diameter when 10-10-10 was recommended? Maybe I’m remembering that wrong…I do that too often these days.
Up until last year I’ve never applied less than 3 lb. per tree unless I used high N lawn fertilizer, and even then, I didn’t reduce the rate as much as would be recommended. I did that every spring until last year.
Ironically enough, I never once had any fireblight until last summer, and then it was only what I believe they term as “shoot blight”. Also ironic, it was also the following the first dormant sprays using copper I had ever made.
I totally believe all the logic is very sound and everything and I understand your concern for FB, because I remember you went through some real Hell with it.
150 lbs. per acre just doesn’t sound like very much to me.
I’m probably too shy with the Nitrogen! I have about 600 trees on 1 acre. Last year I used about 500# 10/10/10 pushing a cheap 2 foot wide drop spreader up and down each row (about a mile total) and later side dressed with about 200# of Calcium Nitrate hand spread from a bucket. My drop spreader is wide open, so I can not increase the rate, so I’m moving to 17/17/17. Using the spin spreader on the tractor would be easy and I could put out about 900# of 17/17/17(about 150#N) to the acre, but I did not want to place so much of the fertilizer into the tractor alley and make the grass and the weed grow
What do you think about just fertilizing a 2 foot band on each side of the row compared with spreading the fertilizer over the entire area with the tractor spreader?
I appreciate the discussion. I’ve chosen G41 because it is FB and Wooly Apple aphid resistant.
Last winter I lost 2 of 11 one year old potted trees on G11. The winter was fairly mild, trees were in good condition and protected. The prior summer they were subjected to an infestation of the dreaded aphids. The only explanation I could come up with for the loss was possible root damage from the aphids. Hence the change to G41 since the aphids have a healthy population here.
I will be reinforcing the graft joints as blueberry suggested.
Thank you for the heads up on NC-140. great stuff.
ok…so they recommended 150 lb. of nitrogen…I was thinking 150 lb. balanced fertilizer. Still, to me, that sounds extremely light all the way around. I’ve typically applied way more than that and my soil here is already about as good as it gets. Then again, I don’t have 600 trees either and if I did I’d be a lot more stingy and judicious in application rates.
Jeesh, you are giving me too much credit in asking my opinion on anything Blue given how knowledgeable and well studied you are. This is sorta akin to a NASA engineer asking my opinions on different methods of rocket propulsion…you’re too modest my friend.
I will say this though since you ask. I’d personally never broadcast spread down the center rows. Like you say, too much mowing and 4’ tall tough weeds galore would be a nightmare. Furthermore, I’d bet that the vast majority of the fertilizer would to totally lost to the target trees. I don’t even fertilize out to the drip lines like they recommend. I know there are feeder roots out that far, but to me, the target zone for optimal uptake is much closer in toward the trunk. Fertilizer doesn’t spread out on it’s own either like I think a lot of people seem to believe.
Can’t you rotate your deflector on your tractor mounted broadcast spreader to direct the granules towards and under the tree? I wouldn’t worry at all about small quantities that get up against the trunks. I’d want to place the fertilizer right in the zone where I know most of the uptake would occur. Set the distribution rate to 1/2 and go up, then down the same row hitting that row from two sides?
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I looked at the spreader on the back of the tractor at work tonight and it doesn’t rotate. I really thought they would.
My new one does not, but the old rusty spreader did. Unfortunately, its broken! Guess I will just push the drop spreader. It only takes a few hours
Here is a picture I took today of a Freyberg bench graft on G-41 done last spring. The G-41 came from Cummins last spring without much root system but all the grafts took. The interesting thing to me is the nice amount of branching on this tree and my other G-41 bench grafts that has already developed. These trees got minimal care the 1st year on the ground, mainly just a few handfuls of 10-10-10 during the growing season. The trees I have purchased in the past from Cummins already grafted on G-41 were mostly whips with very little branching. Go figure.
Here’s my Honeycrisp apple on Geneva-41 rootstock. Tree came from Cummins. Photo was taken 18 months ago. It’s a little bit bigger now. No fruit yet. Maybe this fall…
Where’s your support for the tree? G.41 needs support.
Matt- How tall is that deer fence I see in your photo? Hoping six feet will work for me although I know they can jump higher than that.
I will eventually support an entire hedgerow of 10 dwarf apples - the design of which includes this tree - with a hillbilly style post-and-wire system. The row will include some G.41s, G.16s, and B.9s. Behind them (near the fence) will be 5 free-standing semi-dwarves-- a mix of EMLA.111s, G.935s, and maybe a G.30.
Ham,
That stretch of fence is indeed six feet high. I plan or raising it another few feet someday. So far, it has kept the deer (and black bear) out.
Previously, the deer had been a problem. One deer rutted my Indian Free peach, which struggled for a year and eventually died from all the damage caused up and down the length of the trunk.