I agree with Patty. In California apples require very little care and one can grow them without any sprays. For me, the main issue is saving the fruit from ground squirrels and birds.
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My apple trees are in west central Illinois. I do not spray. I get the good apples and the deer get the bad ones.
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I didn’t spray a couple of my trees the past few years. The apples look terrible, but part of that is too much shading/bad site location. The worst thing is not the bugs/disease…i can deal with crappy apples…its that the squirrels/birds take/attack them constantly once they start showing color…ugh. My summer apples did great with just a few sprays of pyrethins…i had to put wire mesh over them as they turned because the birds were pecking at em daily.
I was away from home a couple springs caring for my father. The apples didn’t get sprayed or bagged. They were complete junk, not enough wormless spots to even get a bite. It depends a lot on where you are. Western Wisconsin you need to protect apples.
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I agree. I read the NYT article, and while I like some of Michael Phillips techniques (i.e. remedial wood chips) he seems to leave me with the impression he thinks his techniques are universally effective for any location. Maybe I’m misinterpreting, I don’t know.
I do know I’ve been on various fruit growing forums (along with Scott, Alan, Fruitnut, and others) for a long time, and have read of countless times where people have tried to basically go without any use of pesticides in the NE, Midwest, or the SE, experience complete failure and become discouraged. They think somehow they must be doing something wrong because an author said no spray techniques work, when in reality the only thing they did wrong was to take the author too literally.
I’m not trying to insinuate nothing can be gained from Phillips books, or discourage anyone from trying to minimize or even eliminate pesticides, depending on location, tolerance to harvest loss and fruit damage, but it’s my opinion there is more collective knowledge on this forum than Michael Phillips experience.
I would also say that until there are more new techniques for growing fruits without pesticides, most people in humid rainy warm climates will probably have to use some pesticides to get dessert quality fruit, or bag the fruit.
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Lids that article is closely related to the topics in this recent thread
You will see there my opinion that northern and western climates are much easier to do no- or low-spray on apples. The NYT article is about northern NH and I don’t think those methods will work for me in Maryland.
It is somewhat random what will happen with no-spray apples, it depends on many factors. Most of the trees I have seen have really beat-up fruit, but a few were OK. Even here in Maryland I have seen perfectly OK apple trees that never got sprayed.
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… for apples and other deciduous fruit.
Like Patty, I spray my apples with copper for mildew but also Agrimycin for Fireblight.
Who are Mr. Gopher’s friends … Mr. Squirrel, Mr. Rabbit …
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This is about me! Tried no spray, didn’t get any fruit . By the time I realized this is not working, My tree is in such bad condition that I might have to axe it down. Not just discouraged but also heartbroken. I’m not trying no spray again 
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Hah, exactly, and yes, specifically discussing apples. We have other pest issues that are rather devastating for other fruit trees here in California, that we have to deal with (such as HLB with our citrus). I think we’re probably the Gopher Capital of the World out here in California, especially S. California. I don’t spray for Fireblight because the timing is everything, and I have only had one strike on any apple or pear tree, and that was 4 years ago. So, for right now (crossing all fingers and toes and knocking on all wooden things), I will just keep a vigilant eye out. But, always watching for it, because it is probably one of our worse bacterial/fungal issues we have.
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Keep in mind that Pomegranate can be an unseen host for FB.
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Yup, as well as all the Bradford pears in Vista and Oceanside as well. I think they’re worse for spreading FB than poms.
Bag those apples! I bagged 900 this year, and they nearly all turned out fine. Bagging isn’t hard. I found it relaxing to do at the end of a long work day. The kids played in the yard around me while I bagged a hundred here, two hundred there. I did it over the course of a month–and I didn’t even start till after the plum curculio hit.
If I, a newcomer to this, can have success, then nearly anyone can.
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Thanks Richard. I would have never have thought about Pomegranates being a FB host. I just planted my first about a week ago and I hope I didn’t make a big mistake.
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Al,
I bag, too. It really depends on your pest pressure.
If I don’t do Surround cover spray while apple fruitlets are too small to bag, I run the risk of bug damage. Those bugs work very fast. If it takes me a few evenings to complete all the bagging, the risk is higher without Surround.
I, too, have found standing among my apple trees bagging relaxing/ therapeutic.
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I agree, those b**tard Callery Pears (Pyrus calleryana) are the worst. The city of Poway planted at least a 100 in boulevard medians. Some fruit enthusiasts are known to have notches on their chainsaws …
Annual copper should control it. You are also aware of pyracantha?
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Yup, and I have none on my property. Some in the general neighborhood, though. Do you know that the berries on Pyracantha will ferment on the plant in our heat? Birds will still eat them and become drunk. I used to see this in Fullerton, where I grew up. First time I had ever seen anyone (or anything) intoxicated, before! 
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Listen to the growers in your area. When I lived in S. CA, spray free fruit was easy. I was up in the hills enough to avoid a lot of the fog, so I didn’t even know about fire blight- but back then I didn’t grow much in the way of pomes anyway- the nurseries didn’t tend to supply anything but stone fruit, avocados, figs and citrus. I helped manage a neighbors two apple trees but that was the extent of my experience with apples.
Now I grow fruit an hour north of NYC and if I only had experience growing fruit in this pest ridden area my advice would be worthless to you, although I can tell you something about protecting your fruit from ground squirrels! Here grey squirrels are the plague, but dealing with ground squirrels is quite similar. At least we don’t have gophers. Pine voles can create the same damage but they are not as prevalent here as gophers were in Topanga Canyon.
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I’m curious to learn more from folks who tried a “no-spray” (no pesticide) program what happened - what were your alternate methods and where do you think they went wrong. I’m trying to raise my orchard in as “organic” a way as possible and always like to learn from others’ experiences.
It seems to me, its not a binary thing - “spray” vs “no-spray”. Reading through Philipp’s books and his forum as well as other permaculture forums; the “no-spray” routine is not a laisse faire approach. There are dozens of tools they are using - including spraying surround, neem paste on trunks, using mating disruption, trap trees, barrier strategies, and most importantly (i) building a healthy soil ecosystem, and (ii) creating diverse plant ecosystem in the orchard that supports endemic populations of predators to keep pests somewhat in check. Different tools are being used in different situations and it requires a lot more work and experimentation than just “not spraying”.
It occurs to me that the last point - having the diverse and balanced ecosystem - should take the longest amount of time and the most effort to build and maintain. its probably very difficult to build in a suburban environment. And not having it during the transition to “no-spray” or in the beginning years of the orchard would leave trees open to unrelenting attack. Likewise it can take time to build your soil, and if its in poor shape the trees may suffer from nutrient deficiencies making them susceptible to disease pressure.
One happy accidental discovery I made this year - I planted a crop of winter rye along the sides of my newly constructed gravel driveway to prevent soil erosion. I got behind this spring and didn’t kill the rye, which then went to seed. All summer there were dozens (hundreds) of birds in that rye patch eating seeds, then flying over to my trees to pick them clean of any caterpillars. My neighbors were practically defoliated from caterpillars (and they spray). I had only one tree out of 25 that had any noticeable damage.
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@Dawg- did you use plastic ziplocks or paper bags or other?
Garden,
You will get a lot of different opinions just from this forum alone.
Here’s mine: Maintaining a no spray fruit tree orchard is a lot of work if you do not live in near perfect fruit growing area (drier air, temperate climate, fewer bugs and diseases present).
I am in a densely populated area where my neighbor lands on both sides are fewer than 10 steps away. Permaculture does not look possible. I think it’s important to know what diseases, bugs and other pests you have in your area. Then, find a way that you are most comfortable with to deal with it. (no spray, low spray, lot of spray for perfect fruit)
I’ve found that for apples, CAR is my biggest issue. I do not always plant CAR resistant apples. I use myclobutanil because it’s very effective with two sprays and it helps with scab and mildew. I may try wettable sulfur down the road.
Stone fruit- I found that peaches are the biggest pain for me on both diseases (canker, bacteria spots, brown rot, peach leave curl, etc) and bugs like OFM, CM, Plum Curculio, sting bugs, etc. After several years, I am quite discouraged by growing peaches with low spray. I spray copper at dormant and Surround before I bag. Will need to consider Serenade as insecticide next spring. I use Indar for brown rot on my stone fruit.
I still have hope for plums and cherries as I only need to spray copper at dormant and myclobutanil for leave spot and bag the fruit.
People have to decide for themselves how much time and energy they want to spend when they want to go a no spray route. My approach is a low-spray one. I can live with it for the most part.
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