Do you have any deer around your property? The only reason I am mentioning the deer is because they love to eat your trees. I have planted over 60 fruit trees, and I spend more time, effort building fences around the trees, to stop them from destroying my trees.
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Agree with the deer comment. First priority is protecting young trees from being destroyed by deer. I learned not to put a tree in the ground until I have a wire cage ready for it.
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Yes! @Sparty is dead on. And be aware that if you have a significant other they may not be thrilled with wire cages around everything.
We had three deer bedded down next door this afternoon. A serious pain.
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Yes the deer are very plentiful AND destructive here. I have used spray monthly with pretty good success. A fence or cage is definitely the best option but it seems to be more work and money than the trees itself.
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Start with known cultivars that work in your area. If that goes well and you’re not overwhelmed experiment with possibly good selections.
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I would suggest moving slowly and only planting a small number of trees initially even if you ultimately plan to have an large orchard. The initial trees will give you a good idea of local disease, insect, and animal pressure. Based on the experiences with these trees you’re going to be better equipped to pick good cultivars and rootstocks that will prosper under the local growing conditions.
Are you planting a hobby orchard or are you mainly planting a orchard that produces a crop you want to sell? Your answer to this will change what you should plant and how you manage the orchard.
I would also suggest doing as much research as possible before you plant anything. In your area it may be possible to grow apples and pears organically. But only if you have trees that have high resistance to local diseases and you are willing to bag apples and pears or spray Surround (a type of clay) to protect the trees from insects. Peaches and plums have problems with brown rot… it’s highly unlikely you will be able to grow them organically.
The county extension will have some information but their expertise may be limited if you are in an area that fruit trees aren’t commonly grown commercially. Pollinators will probably be ok at least initially. There are rules dealing with grazing animals under fruit trees so if you intend to do this on a commercial basis you will need to look into this.
I would take a look at this thread.
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Welcome Ray. Always nice to see other West Virginians here. What part of the state are you in? Im in Morgantown.
A lot of your questions I can’t answer. But I’ll answer what I can. I grow everything that you mention in a compact backyard style orchard. I’ve found apples and pears to be the easiest to grow here. Plums and peaches grow well here too but do require more attention due to insect and disease pressure. I also grow sweet and sour cherries, blueberries, apricot, and some other interspecific hybrids. Although I love eating sweet cherries I personally would not recommend growing them here. They are very difficult due to brown rot and bird pressure. I plan to remove my cherry trees. Sour cherries such as Juliet and Carmine Jewell grow very well.
I’ve not had a lot of luck with the county extension office here. They have helped me with lawn soil problems but not much with my trees. I suggest calling them directly and discussing your plan with them.
Pollinators should not be a problem for you. There seem to be plenty of bees, wasps, and other flying insects to help pollinate trees. At one time I purchased mason bees to help pollination but it turned out they were unnecessary . I’ve found that almost everything that blooms sets fruit. At least after your orchard gets established.
I can’t help you with farm animals or pasture. I do not own enough land to even consider it.
Organically? For me it’s not practical for most of what I grow. Blueberries and bush cherries could be grown organically. Stone fruits are going to be nearly impossible to grow without fungicides and pesticides. Brown rot is a big issue on plums, pluots, cherries, etc. Plum Curculio is also a big problem shortly after petal fall. Coddling moth, peach tree borers, Japanese beetles, and stink bugs also can wreck havoc. You might be able to do pears organically and apples too if you don’t mind them being ugly. Flyspeck and sooty blotch will certainly cover your apples if you don’t spray a fungicide. Although they are cosmetic issues only.
As for slope, can’t much there either. I’ve heard trees help with erosion but my orchard is on relatively flat ground. Unfortunately placed in a frost pocket. Some others here can certainly help you with many of your questions.
I’m certainly no expert but I’ll help you with whatever I can. Lots of great smart generous people here.
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Thank you for the good advice! I don’t have any desire to grow commercially. I just enjoy the self gratification, sustainable aspect and perhaps legacy. I’ve always dreamed of family gatherings making our own apple butter, pies, pressing cider and hopefully sharing the abundance with friends.
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I’m near the VA/MD/WV triangle. Most everything has done well for me but stone fruits. Brown rot on stone fruit is pretty bad and even several sprays will not get rid of all of it. Without spray it will be total crop loss. I’m on the side of a mountain, but really do not see any erosion. Some fruits will help control it.
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How fast you jump into it also depends on your age. Many trees take 6 or 7 years or more to even begin producing. If you like to try lots of variety, you might try grafting several varieties to one tree. And yes, my biggest expense and hardest work establishing my orchard has been the fences and hardware cloth against the deer and critters. If you stay with this forum, you will not stop planting til you run out of space or energy. We have a contagious malady that causes that. I’ve been trying to stay organic as much as possible, but it is nearly impossible east of the Mississippi. You need to look at each successful harvest as a blessing, not a given.
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Hello Speedster! Thank you for taking the time to answer those questions, it is greatly helpful and appreciated! I live in Huntington and my farm is in Putnam county. It is very pretty in your neck of the woods. My wife is a WVU graduate. (Football season is rough on our marriage lol)
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Thanks for the advice Robert! You close to Harpers Ferry? It’s a really nice place.
You are absolutely correct! Like they say…The best time to plant an apple tree is 10 years ago
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I have a little land, but 85 acres would be a dream for me. Land is what I consider good investment. Yea, not to far from Harpers Ferry. Not sure how it is there, but here deer are a major problem for growing fruit. They eat the leaves, fruit, and in the rut destroy whole trees. That’s just deer. Others will also be your new best friends, but deer will show up in massive herds. If you eat deer you can sit on your front porch and shoot them.
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It sure is a good investment! I bought dirt cheap as a provision that it would stay in the family. Would you say deer prefer the fruit or the tree itself?
They attack the trees for different reasons based on the time of year. Spring they like the fresh tender growth. Later they want the fruit. Then the rut they will snap your tree in half or heavily damage rubbing on them. Leaves will be eaten constantly.
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If you want any sort of garden or orchard and deer frequent your property, you will absolutely need fencing. Absolutely! And not just a little cage 4’ high around each tree. The deer will eat the entire tree down to below the top of the cage. Take it from someone who has felt that pain!
If you just want a few trees, I would recommend 7’ high fencing such as what I purchased for my garden–and that which I intend to put around my entire orchard this coming year. Locally, here in Montana, I purchased this:
https://www.tizergardens.com/distributing.html
It is not unsightly at all, practically invisible, but strong, and easy to put up. The hardest part is the posts. I am on the edge of a forest, on a creek, and I have lots of deer with an occasional elk. None have even tried getting into the garden with the fence, but they do cover the rest of my property and browse. They get the fallen apples from the trees in my backyard, and pull apples from the lower branches.
So, these things said, I would recommend full-sized standard trees in areas prone to deer foraging. You could put temporary fencing around the trees for 6 or 7 years until they become large enough deer cannot destroy them, and then you could remove the fencing. Or, you could fence in the entire orchard as I am planning. (By the time you put fencing around every tree, at a certain point it become more practical to fence the entire area.) In my case, I also have bears that visit on occasion, and so I am planning to electrify the orchard fence during the Fall harvest season.
As for your varieties and rootstocks, yes, check with the people who know your area and get help learning what grow well for others. If you want to sell your apples, however, you might try to find some varieties that no one else has nearby, and so you can have yourself a niche in the market.
Best regards, and Godspeed to you and your endeavour.
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Very good points Roger, thanks for the advice! That fencing isn’t an eyesore at all really. I ordered some dwarf and semi dwarf varieties (mostly hard cider) in hopes of quicker output. Also about 100 full size trees counting my grafts. Would you say the dwarfs will always need fencing? I saw on your profile you are into cider making. What kind of apples do you like for that?
I am only an amature grower and cider-maker, well, since 2018, and no expert. However, to answer your question: Yes, I think those dwarfs–and even some seni-dwarfs–will always need fencing. And they also need staking, and also weeding around the trunks to prevent grasses from competing their shallow root systems for nutrients. Standard-sized trees, on the other hand, will have much larger root systems (or so I have read), and, once established, they are better able to survive and thrive without chemicals to kill the weeds (so they are better suited for organic orcharding).
I do not have enough experience to recommend any apple varieties for cider-making. I’ve made some really good cider–really good!–from the unknown varieties on 50 year old trees in my backyard, but my other trees are only one, two, and three years old and so it’ll be a while before I can recommend anything. And what I am able to grow here will not be the same as you anyway. I am in Zone 3, short season Montana. All my apples are zones 1, 2, and 3, and early to mid-season varieties. There may be a few, however, that may do well in both our locations: Wickson crab is said to be good for cider, and seems to grow well so far for me. I also have Hewes Virginia crab, which I grafted on one of the 50 y/o trees and got 4 apples the next year (this year) which are wonderful tasting little golf ball-sized apples–really tasty! This year, I grafted about 40 varieties onto the 50 y/o trees which I hope to get apples from in a couple years. And I also have 120, or so, bench grafts I did this year: (60 Bud-118, plus about 30 each Baccata and Ranetka rootstocks), another 20 or so two and three year old (Bud-118), and on all these I have about 60 varieties, many which will grow in Alaska.
I would be happy to share my list when I have more time, but…it’s late tonight, and I gotta go.
Best regards…
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Uh oh. Marshall fan? Don’t worry, I won’t hold that against you. Haha
Cheers
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