@murky Thanks for posting that about scab. Orangepippin says it’s scab susceptible in their entry for it. Although the red sport is supposed to be less susceptible.
That brings up a common problem with less well known apples. The references don’t always agree on disease resistance. It can be a problem even with commonly grow apples sometimes.
Dwarf trees require less pruning and most of the pruning can be done from ground level. And what can’t be done from ground level can be done on a short ladder. Commercial orchards use dwarf trees because they require less pruning and have higher labor efficiency which means lower labor costs. And using a tall spindle training system they can also get crops much earlier which improves the return on investment.
For your case another advantage is bagging apples is much easier from ground level. The trees do have shorter lifespans but your looking at 20+ years in a commercial planning and quite possibly much longer in a backyard setting. So you might consider planting one or two. They aren’t a good choice if deer pressure is high. They also bear fruit earlier which is a big advantage especially for cultivars that normally take forever to bear on large rootstocks.
Yes. It’s also worth pointing out, for folks new to home fruit growing, that they have a couple of other potential disadvantages beyond this and their shorter lifespans. Dwarf trees tend to be more shallowly rooted, which makes them less drought-tolerant and may require regular irrigation in drought-prone or summer-dry areas. The shallow roots also mean that they’re less well-anchored, making them more prone to leaning or toppling in stiff winds with a high fruit load. If you live in an area that’s windy, dwarf trees may have to be staked or trellised indefinitely.
In such cases, a semi-dwarf or semi-standard rootstock with regular pruning may be a better bet. My own orchard is on a windy hillside in a summer-dry area, and I’m obliged to use MM111 for apples and Lovell for peaches, both pruned to maintain an 8-foot height to avoid having to work from a ladder. None are staked or require supplemental water after two or three years in the ground.
@aminarbus are you in a suburb, or in the country? Deer and rabbits significantly affect tree choice and care for me.
I had no luck with Indian Free. It was the least curl resistant of the peaches I’ve tried, and didn’t set and ripen fruit for me. I’ve grafted it over to Early Laxton plum.
Frost has been the healthiest and best bearing. Fruit are better than Fred Meyer, but nothing to write home about. I have an unknown that makes spectacular flavored peaches, although the pits split and it gets more insect and other damage.
Apparently I’ve been reading this thread in bits and spurts.
I like M26 rootstock for apples. It seems a good compromise, enough vigor to be self supporting and get above deer browse, but not difficult to keep tame.
And here’s a better shot at my Goldrush espalier (on Bud 9, prefer dwarf for espalier) with the Somerfeld and Era producing where I should be forming my second tier. It’s got about 50 apples on it:
That Egremont Russet looks beautiful! What apples do you recommend other than Goldrush? I am actually reading that its a tart apple (?) in several reviews and I’m thinking I might swap it out with another golden type apple.
I’ve taken the advice to go to an orchard to heart…so I’m planning a trip and I will probably only place my order in October (hopefully nothing will sell out between now and then)
Thanks for the advice, this makes a lot of sense! Definitely think semi-dwarf is a good compromise then…its very dry in the summer in SW WA state and good anchoring will help in the winter too. its incredible how trees are able to produce here without supplemental water even in the summer!
I’m smack dab in the middle of the suburbs, (E Vancouver) no deer here at all. The property is fenced and I might get it re-fenced to keep out the community rabbits though.
I heard the Indian Free was curl resistant from Four Winds Grower (where I bought my tree), so that’s sad to hear! I love the Saturn/Donut/Peento peaches (very sweet, very fine flesh) but they are not resistant at all so I haven’t bought any. I’m taking a total gamble with the Hardired nectarine too, its not resistant either but I can’t find any nectarine that is. Even the Moorpark apricot is iffy. I’ve heard the most resistant peaches are Nanaimo (which is always out-of-stock at One Green World) and the Oregon Curl Free, so if my current plantings fail, I’ll be switching them out for those.
For what it’s worth, Indian Free and the similar Black Boy (both on Lovell rootstock) are pretty resistant to PLC in my environment. They display a bit of it, but it’s never enough weaken the tree or prevent a good harvest. They’ve handled it much better than other peaches and nectarines that I’ve grown here in the past.
If case you’re not already aware of this, Indian Free requires another peach that blooms at the same time as a pollinizer. I use Black Boy for this.
that’s good to hear! I figure even if I’m taking a gamble I only invested $35 per tree, I’m sure I’ve spent money on worse prospects lol. I don’t want to be completely intimidated out of trying to grow them because of PLC. If it works, it works, if it doesn’t, maybe I can try some sprays…if I don’t try, I won’t know!
I thought the peach can be pollinized by nectarine? I know hardired is self fertile and, at least for apple trees, some of the self pollinating ones are not great cross pollinators, but I’m not sure how this applies to peaches and nectarines. I was planning on adding more peaches to my collection anyway. My Indian Free is just a tiny whip at this point so I’ll have a couple years to settle on another peach variety too.
I believe that peaches are the inverse of apples with regard to pollination: most are self-fertile, and just a few are not. Almost any other peach that blooms at the same time should pollinize Indian Free. Can’t speak to whether a nectarine would work, but we have other folks here (@Olpea?) who could.
There is a curl resistant nectarine that is commercially available, Kreibich. One Green World sells it. I also have an unknown one that is supposed to be good and curl resistant that was budded for me last summer. Hasn’t fruited yet, but it did resist curl this spring.
A nectarine is a peach, it should pollenize the peach tree if they bloom at the same time.
@aminarbus if either of your trees don’t work out, you can graft them to another variety of peach, or to plums.
Qualified that the pollen must be viable. Some varieties are known for not producing viable pollen.
You have a unique climate. I’m not sure what would do best there, but you can probably grow many of the best British dessert apples that need cooler summers.
I’ve noticed quite a few errors on pomiferous.com
Still, it’s a fine additional resource…compares favorably to a lot of other
descriptive information on the internet.
(My take on most subjects–you have to question them and not just swallow what an author/commenter tells you.)
I have a Cornish Aromatic apple I’m hoping the varmints don’t sample before I get to.
Mom’s old fashioned Winesap has been completely wiped clean…might have had 15 bushels on it…(45 year old on seedling root)…got 3 apples two weeks ago that were not yet ripe. Shame…it’s a fine dessert apple if stored awhile.
As mentioned a nectarine will pollinize a peach (assuming the nectarine is not one of the rare male sterile types). The only genetic difference between a nectarine and peach is a single recessive gene. There have been multiple patented varieties of peaches which have a nectarine and a peach as their parents.
Btw, if Indian free has the recessive “G” nectarine gene, and you cross it with a nectarine, you could get a nectarine as the offspring.
I’m not good at navigating past posts in these threads. Did I cite pomiferous.com in an earlier post, and is that why you mention it, or are you introducing it as a source, with the caveats?
Post #56 by mroot uses pomiferous as a reference. Perhaps BlueBerry mis-attributed it to you when it should have been to mroot.
I also noted quite a few errors in pomiferous, mostly in parent attribution. For example, Braeburn’s parents were finally determined by DNA testing yet pomiferous does not show them.
Edit to add: Delicious and Sturmer Pippen are the parents of Braeburn. Using whole-genome SNP data to reconstruct a large multi-generation pedigree in apple germplasm - PMC
mroot used it in post #55 above in response to your post #54…that’s how I connected it to you I reckon.
