Best places to live - For Growing Fruit

General Fruit Growing
#46

If i could choose a place to live it would be Australia.

Especially Queensland (Coastal Regions)

I was there when i was 6 years old and i totally felt in love with this land.

I dont dislike Austria but the winters are annoying me … i just cant stand the cold.

Growing fruit is not that hard here and you can have good yields if you care about the trees.

An advantage here is the price of some properties: Around 1-3€ per m². (Grass land no building allowed)

Thats really cheap!

However, if had the money and if my parents would come with me … i would move to Australia.

But that is just a dream and i have to live with what i got.

2 Likes
#47

I’m in Michigan, and I think it’s great. I hate winter, but I can tolerate it. The lakes keep it warmer than other areas. No earthquakes, or hurricanes, no deadly poisonous animals, the soil is great with a pH of 6.5 on the east side, 5.5 in the west… I can’t get the brix of CA but I have had about 15 people tell me my peaches or nectarines were the best they ever ate in their lives. Cost of living is low, jobs are good and growing, pay is good. Fishing is great! Pest pressure is medium to low, rain average is 32.8 inches a year. I keep thinking of moving but cost of living, hurricanes, pest pressure, humidity, something is always there to discount the place I’m looking at. So I’m staying here. far from perfect but works for me. Depends what you want? I thought about living three or 4 months a year in Belize. Go there just in time to harvest my citrus, pineapples, figs, and pomegranates, mangosteens, acai berries. Or whatever I happen to fancy to grow at the moment. . Come back in April. Leave in January after the holidays. The summers are grand here, although not for everybody.
I remember my brother who lives in North Carolina the past 40 years came to my cottage and said our old growth forest looked like a rain forest, and it does with the Tarzan vines and all. Although i do cut the vines when i see them as they will bring down trees. They are wild grape vines.

2 Likes
#48

It’s 1 1/2 times the rate for owner occupied properties.

#49

Okay, I did a little more googling and rest of the discrepancy appear to be due to homestead exemption that owner occupiers get to claim and not due to tax rate. Sorry for muddying the topic - an upstate SC realtor had mentioned this to me once without breaking down the specifics. The homestead exemption is on the first $50K of the assessed value.

#50

That doesn’t sound cheap in comparison to the US. It looks like there are 4047 square meters per acre, and it looks like a euro is about 1.2 dollars right now, so 1-3 euros per square meter should translate to $4856-14,569/acre. I don’t know what agricultural land sells for in the Central Valley of California, but there’s good farmland for sale in North Carolina for under $5000/acre without any building restrictions or the kind of extreme (from a rural US perspective) zoning regulations seemingly common in places like Austria. And not too long ago (when grain prices were near their peak and land was selling especially high) I heard prime Midwestern farmland was selling for around $10,000-12,000 acre.

2 Likes
#51

I think you may be able to grow apples- see the following thread:

I also saw some pages which seem to indicate that there are some low-chill peaches which are doing OK in Hawaii. Sounds like a work in progress, but promising.

https://manoa.hawaii.edu/kaunana/hawaiian-peaches-could-have-a-bright-future/

Not an option when you are still working. I’d prefer doing without compared with how much they crank it in the office sometimes. At home, I can go without, but sometimes use a bit. The rest of the family insists :blush: I do prefer to get temps down to the mid-80’s for sleep. With some planning, open windows and a fan can do that though.

I did visit Costa Rica in 2007. It was nice and we did the usual things- walk in the rainforest, zip lining, cliff/waterfall rappelling, and horseback riding. The horseback riding was the most painful and scary. We went on a 2 day ride from one location to the next in our trip. Cowboys must have real tough rear-ends, as I had broken skin after the first day…

My horse also gave me a scare by climbing up on a thin strip of grass to have a snack. No problem, except on the other side of the strip is a sharp precipice. I wasn’t all that confident in the best way to control the horse in that situation- best to not make him run off a cliff. So I just waited and he eventually got back on the path.

HoresebackCostaRica_2007
HoresebackCostaRica_20073072×2048 1.7 MB

I went there for my honeymoon in December 1999. It was very nice and I liked the barrier reef as well. Here’s a pic of me with some random fruit I found in the rainforest in Queensland. I don’t think I ever found out what it was. We did see jack-fruit in a more cultivated area.

RainForest_1999
RainForest_19991280×960 201 KB

While the tropical Queensland was beautiful and had great weather, I also liked the outback (Alice Springs).

Outback_1999
Outback_19991280×960 181 KB

We went out walking the first day and found some wild melons and later a kangaroo.

MiniMelons_1999
MiniMelons_19991280×960 184 KB

One cautionary note though- weather in the outback changes pretty quickly. A day after we were hiking around in 95F, we had a cold, windy, rainy day with temps in the 40’s & 50’s. Of course, we didn’t prepare for that type of weather, so we were going around in garbage bags to keep some of the rain off…

RainInOutback_1999
RainInOutback_19991280×960 197 KB

6 Likes
#52

Cowboy rear end is like leather and when I was a kid there were still some real horseback riders around. My first girlfriend when I was 11 took me riding all day bareback once and my rear end was raw for a week. We had a great time and I still miss her a lot since she passed away. That day is memorable for many reasons but you won’t soon forget what a horse and heat can do to your backside. Eventually you would develop scarring or die if you had to do it everyday.

#53

@BobVance it really does sound like Hawaii is the place for you, at least if you’re going to stay in the US.

#54

My experience with apples in Hawaii is either you grow them at a chilly high elevation spot, which defeats the purpose of living in Hawaii, or you pick one of the low chill varieties which are sketchy at best. In CA I grow some early apples like Alkmene and St. Edmund’s Pippin, and they suck because it’s just way too hot here when they’re ripening. They go from unripe to mealy in the blink of an eye. That’s the most likely scenario for apples in a tropical climate, even if you grow low-chill varieties like Anna or Dorsett.

1 Like
#55

There’s no perfect spot.
If you want citrus, then you’re stuck with 8b up.
I think the us goes to 10a?

The more rainfall, like the southeast and Puerto Rico, the more humidity and pest pressure.

If you move to a place with less rainfall, like out West or some parts of Hawaii, then you need to get water rights somewhere…

#56

I grew up in Eugene (Willamete Valley) and I believe that to be a good climate for fruit, but rainy springs can create issues around pollination. Southern Oregon, near Ashland would also be a very good climate for fruit.

1 Like
#57

Thank you so much everyone for posting such useful information! I have been reading and researching all of your responses and it has been very helpful!

Fruitnut, I hate you for breaking this to me but your so right!!! I grow citrus, strawberries, cane berries, cherry, apricot, peaches, nectarines, plums, pluots, persimmon, apple, pomegranate, grapes organically in the Bay Area CA. I don’t think that’s possible anywhere else. I have to be ready to give up on at least a few to move.

Here is a summary of fruit production by states. Largest producers first -
Apple - Washington, NewYork, Pennsylvania, California and Virginia
Apricots - California,Washington
Raspberries – California,Oregon, Washington
Blackberries - Oregon
Cherries - Washington, Oregon, California, Michigan
Blueberries – Michigan, Washington,Georgia, and Oregon
Peaches - California, South Carolina, Georgia and New Jersey
Guava - Southern California
Persimmons – California
Pears - California, Oregon, Washington, Pennsylvania, Michigan,New York
Nectarines – California, Washington
Plums – California, Idaho, Michigan,Oregon and Washington
Pomegranates - California
Grapes – California,Washington, New York
Citrus – Florida, California,Arizona, Texas

Here are places I have visited so far in my search for a perfect place to live (looked into schools, homes, weather, social life, things to do…)

Maui, Hawaii – Liked the weather. Banana, Papaya, Pineapple, Mango, Avocado, Moringa, Macademia grow like weed everywhere. Great place for a vacation but not to live/raise a family. My son would probably be in the water or zip lining all the time and not bother with school !!!

Miami was great to visit too but not a fan of all that humidity. Loved the Disney cruise to the Bahamas.

NC (Raleigh, Charlotte) beautiful and so inexpensive but too cold in the winters.

Dallas - summers are too hot and winters too cold.

Costa Rica was amazing, a tropical paradise but again I would not raise a family there.

I visited Austin in Summer and I am here again in San Antonio for the winter holidays. Austin was highly recommended as a mini CA in Texas. Took my son to a spurs game earlier and the Alamo bowl yesterday(Stanford lost :frowning: ). I did love the Riverwalk, Botanical Gardens, Alamo, tex mex, food trucks, etc I saw papayas, citrus, banana here. Was very surprised to see Papaya alive and fruiting this time of the year in San Antonio! Cant deal with the humidity though. Taking it off my list.

Based on recommendations in this thread, I plan to visit OR & WA. May be Vancouver too.
If I move up to Oregon/Washington it will be colder winters that I am not looking forward to but summers will be just right. I am still researching schools in Oregon & WA. Will plan a trip for spring break.

I am also looking into SC next but may rule it out due to humidity. Also on my list to research –
Sedona AZ, Southern Utah, San Diego.

I think my best bet may be in CA. I could save for a few years to buy something larger in the bay area. Another option would be to stay @ my current place & get a vacation home that’s less than an hours drive. A little 1 bed cottage with a pool and lots of land to grow fruit on. Sounds good on paper, how practical to drive there a couple of times a month, I don’t know…

I am going to checkout the list of places in CA that fruitnut recommended

Some questions on CA -

Stan, fruitnut, Richard - I drove past Tracy to go to Oakdale last Friday. Lot of smoke in the air and my eyes were burning. Was this one off or is this the pollution? Always this way? Clovis has some good schools, nice houses, big lots…. Is pollution as bad here too? I’ll drive down one these weekends to check it out…

1 Like
#58

I lived near Clovis for 4 yrs. Actually Piedra on the Kings river east of there. I had a beautiful place with 6 acres right on the river that I purchased in 2000 for peanuts. But I left in 2004 due to poor air quality that was causing me some health issues. I think Modesto to Redding might not be quite as bad for air quality. But with all the forest fires that aren’t likely to get better it’s the biggest issue I’d have with moving back.

The area around Richard is nice and has better air. Fallbrook to Escondido is where I’ve looked. You can get a place with some land for 500K+. What would make me wonder about that area is all the people, cars, and traffic.

Oakdale is nice and the headquarters of Burchell Nursery. I almost bought there in about 2010.

1 Like
#59

How about away from the Bay Area, North to Santa Rosa, or South towards Gilroy, Hollister, or Salinas, those are agricultural areas. Housing is still expensive but less than half the cost of the Bay Area. Check out Zillow.com. The housing situation is horrible in the Santa Clara Valley, only 8 single family detached homes are for sale right now according to a report by KCBS radio this morning. The SCV population is nearly 2 million! Thank the Tech workers for jacking up the prices. When my parents moved to San Jose, from Michigan in 1962 they bought their house for 19K , four bedroom ranch style on a 1/3 acre lot. That same home right now is worth 1.6M. I bought my place in East Palo Alto for 165K in 1994, it is worth nearly 1M right now. I am renting out my bedrooms so that I can keep it. It does have a 1/3 acre lot, great for growing produce and fruit trees.

3 Likes
#60

Air quality is not good in the middle part of the Central Valley, but much better in foothills on either west or east edge. I just looked at the air quality map (Air Pollution in California: Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Map), and current values are (lower value means cleaner air):
Palo Alto: 109
San Jose: 99
Livermore: 95
Tracy: 93
Modesto: 147
Merced: 156
Fresno: 163

Where I live, it’s closer to the hills west of Tracy, it’s pretty windy here (especially in the summer), but air quality is rather ok.

Actually, south of San Jose, air quality is much better: Gilroy: 30, Hollister: 42, Salinas: 30. I’m sure there are great fruit growing locations in those areas.

4 Likes
#61

That’s right Ray. They originally classified my daughter’s residence as an unoccupied rental assessed at 6%. Then they corrected it to owner occupied at 4%. (i.e. half again as much higher property tax for rentals)

As Astrid mentioned, there is a Homestead tax credit on the first 50K, but you have to be either over 65, legally blind, or disabled to qualify.

In short, the effective property tax rate in most of Greenville is 1.38% for primary residence, and 2.07% for rentals (for 2017).

For a 100K rental house, one would only have to charge an extra $57.50/month to cover the extra property tax assessed to rentals vs. a homeowner primary residence. ((2.07% - 1.38%) * 100K / 12)). A 100K house will rent for about $1200/month in Greenville.

1 Like
#62

Mark,
You’re right, but the only problem is that the lessor can’t always
pass along tax increases to the lessee. We have automatic property
tax assessments every 7 years, and the assessed value of your property
may have increased beyond the point of what you can pass on to the
lessee. I have appealed my fair share of reassessments over the years,
and some of these “tax assessors” use methods that aren’t even accepted
valuation methods. I’ve been a Realtor for 45 years and have taught Real
Estate courses in college and for Century 21, and have had to “educate”
some of these guys.

2 Likes
#63

wow!!!
You should move back here into a pocket with good air quality!

Thanks Rich! This is definitely a sellers market.

Tracy has better air quality than San Jose :slight_smile:
Thank you! The air quality tool is very helpful!

#64

You should check out the areas around 25 miles east of Sacramento. Fair Oaks, Folsom, Orangevale, Citrus Heights, and others around here. Just a few miles from Folsom Lake and the American river, hour and a half to skiing in Tahoe, hour and a half to coast. Good fishing, good schools, hundreds of miles of bike trails and many outdoor activities here. Also we sometimes get delta winds here and the nights are cool in summer usually. Pretty good air here too, 25 right now according to the real time website Stan posted. The summers are hot though, perfect for high brix stonefruit, but we have cool fall weather that is great for citrus. We also have the fig wasp here and many wild fig trees around. Vegetables do great here too!

4 Likes
#65

I think I missed something here- why would the effective rate be so low? Around here at least, the assessed value is 70% of the appraised. So, if the mill rate was 60 (6%) for a rental, the effective percent would be 4.2%, or about $350/month on a 100K place ($117/month more than owner occupied).

That’s not bad- it passes the 1% rule I’ve read about. You want rental properties where the rent is over 1% of the cost of the property. It’s very hard to find around here and only multi-families are close. Even so, we’ve only found one like that and it was at auction. To do the math, if you get an 80K mortgage (~400/month), pay $4200 in taxes, pay $100 maintenance/month, and expect 1 month vacancy each year, you end up with with a 15% rate of return on your money.

Sounds nice…Just how nice was driven home as I shoveled my driveway today in 15F temps. :thinking:

1 Like