We all love fruit just like you do and im glad your having fun with it.
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interesting your travails trying to acquire and grow ‘illini’. A friend and neighbor of mine runs a great little nursery- he’s mostly into bizarre conifers and apples of all kinds, he has hundreds of both- but he has a patch of ‘Illini’ that he digs and pots up some every year. He’s offered me some before. I declined at the time, partly because the thorns are so hellacious. Not that Im squeamish or anything, just didn’t see the need at the time. I remember him saying they were tasty. Sounds like lots of others think so too. Maybe Ill see about getting one from him. Anyway, interesting that its hard to propagate. Id think being a blackberry it’d just root sucker like the dickens. I kind of figured if there are only a couple of super hardy blackberries cultivars, they’re probably not much better than wild. Im surrounded by wild Rubus too, so wasnt looking to reinvent the wheel. Sounds like I should reconsider.
I did ask OGW to swap out ‘Big Daddy’ for ‘Columbia Giant’ since @Drew51 seems to be able to grow em, and @steveb4 id having luck with them too. Of course, like any other of us fruit freaks, I started looking at berries, just thinking I might get one or two since shipping wouldnt be that much more. Now I want all of them! Looking at Nourse’s offerings. Theyre close and usually send really nice plants IME, plus well adapted here. Also trying to remember how many other irons I have in the fire. It better if you leave time to actually pick and enjoy, a lesson Ive still not fully learned
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Hi, I’ve gotten into growing blackberries these past couple of years and just now fallen into the trap:
“Triple Crown seems good, is there one better?”
Any ideas for what blackberries and raspberries I should grow? Some of these hybrid like things sound good too, never really liked boysen, but my dad loves them. @krismoriah Victory looks cool, what do you think of it?
I’m in Northern California at two different locations, one around Santa Rosa (9a/b) where the Himalayans assimilate like the Borg, and another inland from Crescent City (9a) trailing blackberries and black rasps grow wild.
I’ve been focusing on growing blackberries at the second location mentioned, among others, I have TC, Navajo, and another erect thornless that I forget is name, big berries, hollow core. Navajo doesn’t like me or possibly my heat, they wimp along, some years not growing a primocane and somehow leafing off last year’s half dead floricanes to survive. Berries smaller than wild ones, and not as tasty.
TC grow like beasts. One had thirteen 8-10 ft untipped floricanes last year. TC also get the most sun, full sun on one side, solar panels on the other, which reflect even more sun and heat back at them. All plants get turned up to around .5 gallons per day during the summer, but TC seem very tasty to me.
Full Patch, June 20:
TC, July 21:
TC, Aug 3:
Forgotten Erect, Aug 3:
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I think you would probably like Columbia Star better. It has pretty amazing breeding and was bred to replace Marionberry i think.
I will probably never find it again but Chad Finn said that Columbia Giant is more of a novelty plant for backyard growers… not the best for flavor etc etc.
While we are on the subject this will be my first crop of Marionberry here and they have seen zero temps and so far look to be without any winter damage and healthy.
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Its a workhorse for me and more vigorous than TC… it keeps me busier pruning than any other that i have. It fruits in mid to late June and doesnt stop until Septemberish but those berries arent as good. TC is ripe late July into August which to me wasnt cool with SWD. So i would say Victory wins in fruiting earlier and longer…but the later berries that are in the TC window for me are mostly junked…those need to be washed and only fit for jams for me.
Victory for me has a bit more tartness which is what i personally like… more complex flavor than TC.
If SWD isnt an issue where someone lives its a good berry to grow…but it and its uncle Chester are not good for me… just SWD bait
I would wait for Celestial, Zodiac and Thunderhead blackberries…they will probably be released this year. Also wait for Finnberry raspberry.
All of those are USDA releases from Oregon and should do well for you…but i cannot fully recommend anything that has such little information about. I posted some videos near Christmas that i found.
Natchez is worth growing…its very early and i like it for that early window. The only complaint is seed size which doesnt really bother me.
Cascade Delight is worth growing unless you live somewhere where its colder than Z6 then it may be less hardy.
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hmm. I have tried a few times to propagate via root cuttings and zero… true Illini doesnt sucker as far as i can tell. Primocanes come from the crown only as far as i can tell also. Its very very erect so the only way to get a ‘patch’ would be those low laterals somehow tip rooting…i just dont see it tip rooting any other way.
Perhaps its ‘Ebony King’ which is very close looking and also very thorny…it suckers like crazy and a ‘patch’ would be easy. Or perhaps someone down the line grew out seeds and called it Illini? Hard to know.
There was a thread years ago about Illini being ‘invasive’… i just dont see that being possible with a true to name Illini. Its one of the most well behaved plants that i have seen other than being thorny.
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yeah, it sounded like it might be really good. I was scared off by some of what I read about it - seems it may be only a tad hardier than Marion:
Ill have to ask Scott about his ‘Illini’ patch. He’s had it a long time. Have you tried crown division? Hard to imagine a blackberry that isnt like the mythical Hydra but maybe theres an exception to any rule
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Does anyone have an approximate ripening time for tayberry in Virginia 7B? A neighbor gave me one last year and it made long sprawling canes all over, plus at least one tip root, so I was excited to try it this year. Then I started seeing general ripening times of summer or late July and I was worried that it might be ripening too late to avoid SWD.
My Ponca, Caddo and Prelude plants seem early enough to avoid SWD, but it sounds like Tayberry might be too late. I realize I’ll find out this year when it ripens, but I’m trying to decide how much room to give it and whether to move the tip-rooted start to a good spot to extend the planting. Any thoughts?
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i agree Colombia giant is on the tart side but i still like it. only got a small bowlful off my 1 plant but it was its 1st. year on marginal soil. ill put the manure / woodchips to it next spring and tip root a bunch of canes to spread them. i put in 2 Colombia star plugs from Esty last spring. got them under heavy fleece and about 3ft of snow currently. hopefully they make it. z6 plant in z4 is a tall order. if they make it, i may trial tayberry. any other trailing blacks i should try Kris? got a loganberry from Tnhunter last year but it never took for some reason. was thinking of getting another.
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My case in point…Olallieberries-
“Today Olallieberries are a rare species cultivated in small quantities along the West Coast of the United States. The fruits are only available for a limited season each year and are primarily grown in California in the Bay Area, Central Coast, and Southern California”
If you trust Dave Wilson they are hardy to Z4.
I grow them… and i dont live in California or the west coast and they arent rare…are they hardy to Z4? I doubt anyone knows…because OGW says they are hardy to Z6. Trees of Antiquity says they are hardy to Z5. Bay Laurel says they are hardy to Z4. PlantingJustice says they are hardy to Z8
Whatever the case may be…there is alot of wrong information out there on alot of things… do you own homework or just try them and see.
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I dont want to sound like a Used car salesman but for me my most vigorous and happy growers are Newberry, Kotata and Siskiyou all are pretty thorny which is likely why they have fallen out of favor. I get my first crop this year on Ollalieberries as well and those canes also look fantastic… very strong and pliable and forgiving.
My weakest varieties are Black Diamond, Columbia Star, Columbia Sunrise, Halls Beauty, Wild Treasure and thornless Logan… all of those canes are weakly like thornless Boysen is their first few years. They get more brittle and break as well. Maybe in future years they will do better but most will likely get zapped by the cold whereas those others have not.
On paper Newberry is the most cold hardy one that nobody knows about or has tried very much. I think Drew grew it for awhile.
Kotata is the thorniest of all the trailing ones… and could be the most cold hardy… or not i couldnt tell you.
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Tayberry is a lot earlier than Ponca for me. Wyeberry is the first blackberry. It is probably a seedling of boysenberry. Marion is not early for me. It needs to hang a long time for best flavor.
I removed my Columbia Star, it was plenty hardy enough to grow unprotected in my zone 6. I didn’t like the flavor. It had to hang forever to be good. Released at the same time as Columbia Star Newberry is far superior in flavor. Having said that you can only count on your own palate. Everybody has an opinion.
On winter damaged canes I can’t tell till late spring as they look perfectly fine at first. Even might grow a little. Unfortunately they look fine until they’re not.
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A better name now is probably Why Berry 
Developed at Univ of Maryland. ‘A hardier form of tayberry’
Your review and your talks on houzz, fig groups and here are the only real talk about Wyeberries that exist.
I made it as far as to contact the breeder HarryJan Swartz and found a dead end.
Wye in the name is from the Wye Research and Education Center, Queenstown, Md in case anyone wants to follow the trail.
Your review on this forum is likely the only review of this berry where you said they taste identical to Boysens.
So in my book its not worth chasing - i trust your review.
Which leads to Lavacaberry which i have discussed in the past years… according to Gary Pense Sr. and Charlie Little they are also Boysens…or at least identical to them. Perhaps they did not get the original strain… hard to know. But i think the truth is that Lavacaberries are just Boysens that were grown in Arkansas. No sense chasing it at this time unless a new source comes up at a later date that changes the information.
Nectar Boysenberry- the one willis sells is not true to name and they are lying. They sell thornless boysen and label it as nectar boysenberry. Nectar: Originated by Howard G. Benedict in El Monte and introduced in 1937. Originally said to have been a seedling of Young, but later thought to be a chimera (mutation) of Boysen. The fruit is supposed to be larger than Boysen, and many claim it is sweeter. This plant is not available.
Ruby Boysen aka Newberry- Newberry: A complex hybrid blackberry involving Boysen, Marion, Logan and many other varieties, bred by Chad E. Finn of the USDA in Corvallis, Ore., and officially introduced this year. Originally selected for processing, it has seemed more promising for fresh sales, because the berries, somewhat redder and sweeter than Boysen, do not leak juice as readily. It is grown on 20 acres by Paul and Gayle Willems and two of their sons in Kingsburg, south of Fresno, and marketed as “Ruby Boysen” at their Berry Lady farm stand, and at Southern California retail stores. I have these plants available… im not sure if anyone else does.
Riwaka’s Choice Boysen- I am rooting it now. No clue how it will turn out and there is very little information on it other than it was bred in NZ to be a better boysen. New Zealanders have many many variations of Boysens and most are not released to the public.
Boysenberry Seedling #43 - I passed on this one… it is supposedly a little more vigorous than other boysens… and i think i have enough boysen variants to do me for now.
I can only wish to have this kind of climate…
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Wow, tons of info I never found! Thanks!
When I got my wyeberry I had no clue it was a boysenberry hybrid. At the same time I picked up a boysenberry. I grew them next to each other. I can report wyeberries are bigger, ripen one week earlier, and are hardier than boysenberry. I removed boysenberry as most canes would not make it here without protection. Flavor is identical as mentioned.
Speaking of boysenberry I found a volunteer in my garden that tastes a lot like boysenberry. I thought it may be a seedling. Some guys here suggested it’s probably a purple and yeah it’s a cross between a black raspberry and a red raspberry. Unlike other purples this one has an excellent boysenberry flavor.
An added bonus it’s primocane fruiting.
I really like Cascade Gold but it is susceptible to root rot and is not that hardy. I grew some seeds out and one of the plants is very hardy, large fruit, and decent yield. It fruits a long time no instant large harvest.
Will trail to get to the sun. Becomes semi erect crawling into my honeyberry bush to get more sun. Will produce in heavy shade. Needs zero protection. The berries are good but not as good as cascade gold. Stays more yellow when ripe no red flush like cascade…
Here’s a photo of primocane purple. This is a primocane btw.
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On the topic of hardy have you tried KiwiGold and HoneyQueen? I just planted mine this past fall… so looking forward to them. Im not a fan of Anne and pulled them. I like Double Gold also… they get mixed reviews…some say that they have no taste and some say they are the best tasting… i am fairly convinced that the lack of taste is due to overhydration…or their plantings in raised beds with too much moisture content…along with most other reports of blandness… i think rasps prefer lack of moisture for good tasting fruits…which is why i plant most of mine in a very heavy mix of sand now.
Still somewhat on topic. speaking of root rot. hard to get root rot when you have raspberries growing in drought conditions…
I added AAC Eden as well and this looks like its a very tough plant. This guy has been putting them thru the torture test with very good results. Its thornless for the folks that are into that also. The good part is after the 3min mark. Great for folks that live in cold areas… unknown really for folks that live in warmer climates as its a fairly obscure variety.
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I will add Eden to my list. Honey queen didn’t do great for me. I like to try them at least twice. I have not had a chance to yet, so no opinion on it. It died out and I have not replaced it. Kiwi Gold does ok here and it’s a beautiful looking berry with a deep red flush when ripe.
Unfortunately I’m stuck with the conditions I have. Only a few plants really thrive here. My daughter just obtained property with a large raspberry patch. I have yet to go there. Probably in the spring. My daughter just sold her current house and has not moved in yet. It has over 50 fruit trees on the property and in addition to the raspberries has a large blackberry and strawberry patch. I’m very excited to start managing this property. I need to teach my daughter how to care for this property as I’m halfway through the back nine. She has a time demanding job and autistic step child. So it’s not
going to be easy. She moved just to be eligible for a very good program for autistic children in St. Clair county.
You have to do what you have to do.
Here’s the real estate ad for the property
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/8630-Arendt-Rd_Brockway_MI_48097_M48646-01713
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I might give AAC Eden a try. I like that they make full size fruit in such dry conditions. Reminds me of beaches where red raspberry thrives and dominates even against poison ivy, rugosa rose and the like. Im not usually there at the right time of year to see what the fruit is like but Ive always been struck by happy the plants look growing in the sand and salt spray. Meanwhile wildling res raspberries here are often spindly little things with only a handful of berries on them. Go figure.
Its often super dry around mid-summer. I’ve always mulched as heavily as I could manage to, but sometimes have wound up with tiny berries. My floricane raspberries are planted in an area with fertile soil thats shallow to ledge, so sort of opposite the guy in the video. I have a drip system in the high tunnel and was thinking to move most of my brambles up that way, so I may have that problem nipped. I agree too much water is probably part of what causes bland flavor. Nourse lists AAC as having excellent flavor. That seems to vary by location and palette. I saw above where you dont like ‘jewel’ black much due to poor flavor. I love wild blackcaps but for me jewel has great flavor. I know people who’ve sworn off growing raspberries because they say they are all big but bland. Who knows why…
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My reviews along with most of us here fall into YMMV. That was the first crop…and if memory serves it was a pretty wet spring… so shame on me for evaluating a crop and making an assumption.
I just ordered ‘Born Free’ which i did not want to get for awhile… firstly because im not really into thornless varieties that much and secondly i have way too many black rasps. However if it is Tahi that might be worth growing. I cant imagine that there are many varieties with similar characteristics in a black rasp. Im a big fan of NZ breeding so im gambling that Born Free is Tahi.
I bring this up bc it fruits the same time as Jewel… so kinda on the same thought process.
A reviewer from NM says that this plant does well in 100F
“they seem pretty low maintenance and resilient. Also, heat tolerant, as the average temp is 100 F from May through mid-fall. I highly recommend this to anyone looking to grow raspberries, especially fans of the black variety. So happy this has come out!”
So this may be a hidden gem for folks living in Z5 all the way up to the hottest parts of the country… YMMV. It may be more cold hardy than that as well.
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no doubt
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I have the born free raspberry. I should get some fruit this year.
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