Burnt Ridge Rootstock Debacle - Rubber Bands are Not Expensive

My experience with Burntridge this year was horrible for me and 2 other friends that live within driving distance. I placed several orders beginning in July into early fall including plants and rootstock. I had indicated I would come and pick it up at their location. They told me pickup would be in January. Fast forward several months to January and I start to get different emails from them about items or size’s ordered not being available and asking me to pick different products and/or sizes (multiple items). I responded to the emails with all my updates and waited…and waited. Many emails to them asking if items were ready for pick up as previously indicated…in January…then February…and finally into March always being given an excuse why things weren’t ready. Finally I indicated I would just pick my orders up at the Olympia farmer’s market on 1 April and I show up and am told I owe more money because of additional tax for picking up in Olympia instead of their location. This experience combined with the expensive price and pitifully small size I paid last summer for 2 cosmic crisp apple trees (I got a tree 10 x’s the size from another nearby nursery - restoring eden for almost the same price) has permanently soured me on them. 3 orders in 9 months was enough of a sample size to come to this conclusion. All of my plants and root stock were labeled well and the sizes were appropriate with the exception of the cosmic crisp).

Another friend went and picked up his order from them only to find out the order was incomplete and he had to call and tell them and return the following day. Some of the rootstock had barely any roots on them and would not have been anything I would have let leave my nursery.

My 3rd friend was disappointed with the quality and size of the rootstock he got.

I ordered rootstock from multiple locations as well and fruitwoodnursery.com would be my strong recommendation and front runner I’d recommend. Raintree also sent good quality rootstock this year.

…my 2 cents

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I got my G-30 roots from Raintree and they were fine. But, some other items rarther small.
The problem for most of these nurseries are they don’t grow all the stuff they sell…so if they promise something and their supplier lets them down, it obviously cascades on to the end user.

Last year I got roots from TreeCo and they all were nice as expected.

This year, nice big roots from CopenHaven Farms. *Only caveat, found three of the B-10 apple rootstocks had obvious infection Ambrosia beetle.
(And I’ll be looking from now on hoping I didn’t get it spread to my other apples.)

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Yikes. Any chance you can show us a picture of what that looks like. I have some B10 from them as well. Everything about the transaction and communication was great, but I’ll want to double check those rootstocks.

I’m not trying to challenge or contradict your post, but just want to point out for folks that when comparing size of apple trees, its only fair to consider the vigor of the rootstock as well for an “apples to apples” comparison :wink:

I assume you’ve already taken that into account when judging your Cosmic Crisp.

For what it’s worth, I received my Burnt Ridge order in the middle of March, well labeled and rubber banded, about $150 worth of rootstocks and Scionwood, all damp and healthy. I am sorry your orders didn’t work out. Hopefully it was just a transient quality situation for BR.

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I don’t do smart phones/pictures.

But, you can Google and see the “glued sawdust” sticking out from stems.

Here’s a picture I found from NC State University…this is the situation I observed on 3 Bud10 roots from CopenHaven. (I got 150 roots from them…the problem found near the end of my grafting over several days).

IMAG1785

Wow, okay that looks like it should be obvious if it is there.

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Yes I did. Burnt ridge sold me the trees in July that had likely been grafted only a few months earlier. Still in the smallest, skinniest tree pots available was maybe 18 inches tall and between 1/4-3/8 inch diameter. The other nursery (on the same rootstock) was about an inch in diameter and 5 feet tall for the same price.

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UPDATE to close out the topics in the thread from orders received in 2022:

I just finished doing the last of the autopsies on the largest number of rootstock failures I’ve ever had, almost certainly a number equal to all the rootstock failures I’ve had in the last 8 years combined. By failure I mean the rootstock was never healthy nor viable to begin with and therefore the grafts I attempted were never going to succeed.

Just from the Burnt Ridge Order that started this thread I’d estimate the non-viable rootstocks in apples, pears and identifiable plums (where I could figure out which rootstocks were which since they never came labeled or banded) was 50%. That works out to about 60 dead rootstocks, and a huge amount of wasted time in grafting, and loss of future productivity.

The end of the One Green World order wasn’t a happy ending either. Of the 6 plants with the rotted “cobweb” Halloween roots I showed photographs of, 4 of them were dead dead dead, wasted time planting them out as instructed by OGW and then had to follow up only to be told “store credit” was the best I was going to get from the plastic wrapped rotted horror show they mailed out.

This got me thinking about all the nursery or agriculture related orders for this calendar year, and they were all, with only one exception (Trees of Antiquity) the worst season for death, substandard products, diseases in the mail, poor packaging, missing labels, missing items, and general dissatisfaction in the history of online ordering for me. Would anyone else rate this year as particularly bad?

The scions I got from vendors were at best 70% viable… one was so bad it was 3 viable scions out of 20.

One vendor sent all the material with no warning and no tracking number and the box sat out in -5F degrees in February for 24 hours before it was noticed. Everything inside was toast.

Even getting honeybees from vendors was a totally disaster this year. Not sure if any of you are into beekeeping; we ordered 2 Nucs and BOTH came with swarm cells already inside. We watched as both hives swarmed TWICE… bees just flying away because they were poorly packaged and poorly handled and by the time they got to the customer (us) they had already decided to get the hell out of Dodge no matter what we did to try to stop them (and we desperately tried).

Raintree trees are dropping like flies in the orchard… one trunk was so black and diseased I cut it out myself and burned it (I’m not exaggerating). The rootstock had some kind of deformed pea shaped bumps on it that made me think of the movie Alien.

Besides just venting, I guess my question is, What happened this year? What’s going on? 30% higher prices for 1/2 as much viable material? 2022 has got me rethinking my entire plan for acquiring agricultural materials for next year…

-Kevin

p.s. Shout out to the USDA. Their library scions were 100% viable, 100% takes and essentially perfect. So I’m definitely excluding them, this rant was towards the for-profit vendors.

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I have many store credits from half a dozen nursery myself. I ordered 6 pear from 3 different outfits… 5 had fireblight infection one was rotten folded in half before going in the box.
The yr. before was fine except for some hazel I thought was dead… it budded out this yr and is growing well after 18 mo. dormancy

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in all these nurseries defense, they are dealing with a labor storage and new workers are cutting corners often. its got to be frustrating being the owners of these nurseries. their names are on the line. i got a couple dead , small plants from Honeyberry USA. I wrote to them, expressing my disappointment. they sent me 2 instead of 1 of one plant , then the other replacement and to boot 2 more that i didnt order. thanks Bernis for all you folks do over there.

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I have ordered from just about everybody and have been burned by just about everybody. All of the vendors have certain things that they do right. For example Isons I can almost guarantee you will get a perfect muscadine, but you have to know who does what right. There are no excuses for the vendors. It’s not hard to have the person packaging do a quality check. Someone has to take the loss and they chose you. Over the years of ordering I’ve watched the quality of most every vendor lower to the point of almost not worth it.

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That is my ultimate fear, is that this is a low point in a trend that’s trending downward…

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You reminded me of another nursery besides ToA that got a perfect score from my order. Honeyberry USA. It was only 4 items but they all came very healthy and are all thriving now. So I definitely want to make sure I give credit to nurseries not in decline.

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I guess I’m fortunate I didn’t order anything this year.

My activities were largely grafting and sending scions with forum members, and planting pawpaw and persimmon rootstocks generously shared.

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Part of me wonders what happened. My orders from One Green World all came good but a few. My tri lite peach plum is just now coming out of dormancy and one of my almonds is yet to leaf out. Clearly the peach plum is alive. The almond cost 30 dollars so not worth the effort to contact them. The scratch test shows green on the almond so there is no way they could have known. Where I have had really mixed results is Stark Bros. My got a plum that was declining on arrival, a apple tree they sent me had brown stems and a week later I found black all over it. The lady on the phone with me at Stark Bros tried to have me spray and I had to tell her I am trying to claim the warranty and not fix it lots of times to get the warranty. I never made the warranty on my plum even though the bark was black and it had white on the roots. I also never made the claim on the grape vine that had not buds on it and looked dead from the start. The grapevine still shows no life. The other two do but the one that came dead was the expensive one too. Like I said I am not sure what is happening

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its not just nurseries’ its almost everything we buy now. many, not all of the younger workers dont have a work ethic. sadly i agree its going to get worse. luckily places like this site will be where you can get that new tree. if we all grow something well and trade for something someone else grows well, we will be all set for most things we want to grow just for the cost of shipping. all the stuff ive traded with you guys has been very well packaged and healthy. this is where the nursery trade will be during times like this.

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I agree. It was all the nurseries new found prices that renewed my interest in grafting. Ordering online isn’t really worth it anymore unless it’s something you just can’t get. Stark Bro wants more for a one foot tree than the local nursery wants for a six foot potted tree. Insane.

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even the big box stores are expensive and the quality is poor. choices are very limited also. id much rather go dig a wild apple which are tons around here and graft what i want on it. bet i could sell them all day long like that off my front lawn for $10 a piece. hmm. . someone on here grew out apple seed for rootstocks. theres a idea that easier than digging!

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Stark Bros is particularly expensive for what you get. I will give you that. I just bought a persimmon tree from a online nursery I have never used called plant me green. That persimmon cost the same as my prok persimmon I got from Stark bros and is double the size and thickness. It was around the same cost but had 15 dollars shipping so it was 84 or 85 dollars all together. It was in a 5 gallon container too. Simply put there are still good nursery out there. I still have yet to see how it grows. Local nursery want to charge me 120+ dollars for a tree here in Colorado. From what we have discussed on this forum local nursery prices depend heavily on the state and where you live. Big box are typically cheap I suppose. I got my pink lady from Costco this year and it has more growth than any of my other trees. In regards to steveb4 comment about young people I don’t think it is young people who are bad per say. I think it is the newer employees or the employees who don’t care to learn. In my work place I (25 years old) do more than my cower worker (48 years old) just simply because I have made the effort to learn more.

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