So far I acquired 6 cattle panels for $20 each at TSC. Bought 2 2"x6"x8’ and 5 2"x6"x10’ cedar boards for the bottom frame at home depot. Cedar was more expensive by $1 or so per board but insects don’t care for it. In termite country that cedar may have been a good choice. Planning to cut 1 foot off each side of the 8 footers and and cut one of the 10 footers in half. Then I will screw together the 2 10 footers and 1 five footer on each side and use the 2 seven footers on the ends. I ordered some 6 mil remnant plastic and we will see how that goes. The vent opener I ordered from ebay for $30 from a long time seller with a near 100% rating. Still putting it together in my mind though the way I calculated this so far is 6 panels x 50" per panel = 300 inches / 12 = 25 feet. If the panels are bent to 7 feet between them on the front and the back the peak will be roughly 6 feet. I have some supplies from a hot house I built last year and I will reuse those supplies to frame the ends, door, window etc… If you see something I missed I would sure appreciate you telling me now. Was really tempted to go geothermal though this greenhouse will be used for greens and tomato starts so I’m not sure I would get out of it what I would put in it. Double wall plastic would be nice also and again I’m tempted but can I justify the cost? Solar a good option on running any needed electricity?
Just a thought on bed size and fencing-
When we initially build our beds we decided on a four foot width because that way we could easily work the beds from either side- you almost never have to climb in them. But when we added cattle panels to the sides and ends of the exterior beds I realized it was harder to work the further edge of the bed. So that might be a consideration when you decide the bed width.
Mark I have an unlimited supply of cow manure for the beds but I’ve not worked that out in my mind yet. I’m not screwing down a single screw until I do. Considered making the beds 2-3’ tall so I would bend over less. If you’ve picked many green beans or strawberries you know what I mean. It would be better to build the beds before I put on the plastic if I go that way.
This is a geothermal system if anyone is thinking of going that way
This thread discusses it further
https://growingfruit.org/t/geothermal-orange-grove-heavy-yields/19170/11
@clarkinks
I do like the idea of using cattle panels.
But why not just build a high tunnel through the NRCS program ?
There is a bunch of paperwork that goes with that type of free greenhouse and in this case I want to do some experiments with no restrictions or constraints. Ive been talking with friends all of which recognize the heat problem. Propane hot water heaters & piping etc has been suggested. Wood stove , triple wall pipe with lots of creative piping has been suggested. I will take one or all of the ideas and adapt them. A gentleman is apparently raising bananas and tilapia in Kansas who is a friend of friends so I’m analyzing several methods. Anything I do this time will fall into the experimental phase. I’m aware of the program and very much appreciate the suggestion @Hillbillyhort . What i wind up doing may look nothing like what we think it does now. @JustAnne4 mentioned double plastic which is hard to argue with the effectiveness of that. Love that greenhouse setup @JustAnne4 and @Carrie has a setup that looks very similar to what I’m doing in terms of structure. It’s a strong structural design in my opinion. I may not inflate my plastic a friend suggested running pvc pipe over the first later of plastic. He suggested we create a gap with pvc pipes and the second layer of plastic on top. With a space that way there is a lot of additional insulation. A friend suggested I build a boiler because he knows I built a Wood stove from scratch for the project already. @marknmt brings up the most important thing which is the beds. I’m considering using warm water from a small five gallon propane water heater or wood burning homemade device and pumping water through the bottom of every grow box. It would be like every grow box sitting on a heat mat. The pipes would run under the grow boxes. Several friends and I are hashing the details out and everyone is aware of the problems and no one has the solution yet. Solar fans and water barrels etc. have came up many times already but there is not a solution at this time to keep this greenhouse warm enough yet for year round use of everything. @39thparallel and I talked in depth the other day and he brought up some great points of using soil warmth and partially build it into a south hillside. All of these are very good ideas to address a big problem with fluctuating heat. A friend who is heavily involved in aquaponics Aquaponics is thinking over this project and attempting to come up with some additional ideas. Much of their systems are regulated by the water temps.
Nice… I wouldn’t mind having one of these with white plastic for overwintering potted plants.
You could do a “ poor mans” geothermal and just dig two or three feet down like this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eq_mjpDbOb8
BTW for others who may be considering this, my son got the frame off Craig’s List cheap. It was a car port cover - very sturdy and the right size.
I added the strapping for extra support for the poly.
You folks are very creative, I enjoyed this thread!
Had another thought i just came up with about the beds which I’ve never seen done. Let’s say I did do the poor man’s geothermal like @GeorgiaGent is suggesting but I build the table stands out of 4-6" pvc and pull my geothermal air through there and hook those pvc pipes to a geothermal system. That would keep the bottoms of the plants warm because I would pull the heat under them and not waste the space. @GeorgiaGent I’m curious about that design and now you have me thinking. @Bede if we can figure out ways to design something so valuable so cheap I hope everyone winds up with one to grow some extra food. I like Texas preppers original design it just needs some tweaking.
@clarkinks
I have worked installing underground utility’s for many years.
I would recommend looking into using a "horizontal directional drill "to install a loop of pipe carrying water And run through a heat exchanger.
These directional drills can go very deep 20+ ft. , acssessing much more thermal mass than convetional trenching,
The machine I have worked around could drill 500 ft. Runs , like all the way across a wall mart parking lot.fully steerable for depth /direction . Leaving everything undisturbed , except for a small pit on each end.
So look into geothermal directional drill.
Other option is drilling wells and circulating water, could be a closed loop ,or open.
I have a friend in northern Ohio that has 3 wells that he circulates water through with a heat exchanger.heats his house with this,
Only power is for the pump and blower.
A well may be more useful than a horizontal pipe ? ( water ! ))
Here is more detailed info. Kept above freezing all winter
http://www.greenfingardens.com/2013/03/new-tunnel-greenhouse-project.html?m=1
How large do they make rolls of bubble wrap?
@Hillbillyhort I suspect that machine is hard to find but I’m asking around. I did consider vertical instead of horizontal but the depth concerned me for several reasons. Thought I would likely hit water was the biggest detterant. Water is a good thing in Kansas so maybe I need to rethink my strategy some more.
@GeorgiaGent I think I better grab a bobcat for that job! That’s a lot of work!
@ltilton that’s a great idea making a double layer plastic and they go up to 48" ULINE - Shipping Boxes, Shipping Supplies, Packaging Materials, Packing Supplies. The problem is the plastic wouldn’t hold up long term. A friend told me to join plastic sheets just use pvc cleaner and glue and that works for greenhouse plastic.
I have wondered about using a rectangle duct covered with plastic to prevent corrosion, buried just under the ground the full length of the hoop house and then covered with green manure. This would be outside of hoop house of course. Would the compost process give off enough heat so that a small recirculating fan would help warm the hoop house in the winter, and in the summer, you would have composted manure to use. The duct would be approx. 1 ft. deep and 2 ft. wide. Any ideas.
TFN
If you look at his other blog posts he builds his next houses with a bobcat. Actually this is the guy in Kansas you were talking about. As far as uv resistance bubble wrap there is a product called solawrap or poly keder in Europe. https://www.solawrapfilms.com/
@TooFarNorth The old timers backed their motel t’s up a manure pile so they would start in the morning so it does definitely generate heat. I’ve had my compost piles steaming they got so hot but its really hard to regulate. Methane is also a bi product of organic material breaking down which can be captured as fuel.
I think big, well-built piles can generate up to 160 F, but at that point they become self-limiting.
Growing up I lived a block from a planer mill, and they had filled a gully with sawdust and shavings. Steam came out of the piles all winter, and occasionally they’d break into fire. It could be that they were smoldering all the time but nearly smothered.