I’m not sure popularity is a good metric, at least for my tastes. I don’t go out of my way to be iconoclastic, but it turns out most of the things I like are actually pretty unpopular- music, food, even growing things!
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I don’t have anything of substance to back this, but I have a glimmer of a recollection about this putative hybrid and someone saying that it never actually existed. I tend to remember useless details like this 
. Sounds like a curious one, in any case. If it’s intermediate in most of its traits, that would make for an interesting fruit, I imagine.
As for the question of propagation, again I have zero bonafides to claim this, but I was under the impression they (Osage that is) root well from stuck cuttings, and that the miles upon miles of stock fencing or “hedge” were made by sticking cuttings at very close spacing.
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Yes, I remember lots of"experts" said it was a phantom hybrid, too! 
That was before the Morton arboretum acquired theirs. The Columbus Ohio professor did a controlled cross in the 1970’s and got a genetic mix of intermediate types, gave them away. The hort. teacher I talked to had a number of them grown to maturity and said they were males and females, mostly bushy trees, indestructible with no care and had potential as landscape trees for difficult areas. Wish I remembered his details.
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It certainly seems to be a genus unfairly neglected by professional breeders and researchers. Lots of potential.
Che seems reasonably close to being a good fruit. A research and collection tour followed by a decent breeding program is all what’s lacking. More effort’s gone into worse fruit before (goumi, medlar, sorbus, arbutus, ‘edible’ dogwoods, etc) so it’s not like the resources aren’t there.
And that’s leaving aside hybrids. Che, osage, and cockspur thorn must have some interesting combination in there, either for fruit, ornament, or other.
Similarly, Osage has incredible timber properties, but isn’t quite big, tall, or straight enough for the lumber men. But the subtropical South American members of the genus are big tall trees with great timber. One good cross is all you’d need to get a really good temperate source of “tropical hardwood” type timber (ie very heavy, hard, strong, and rot resistant).
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Eric Toensmeier featured Osage some in his last book, “Carbon Farming.” He also mentions the hybrid with Che and the possibility of a wide cross with breadfruit or jackfruit, both of which it quite resembles. Mostly, he talks about the idea of using Osage fruits as feedstocks for industrial products, starch and bio plastics in particular.
Here’s a link: https://www.permaculturenews.org/2013/04/15/industrial-starch-and-bioplastic-from-non-destructively-harvested-perennials/
And an excerpt:
“Those of us in cold climates can also dream of a wide cross between Osage orange and jackfruit or breadfruit, aiming for the cold-hardy edible starchy fruit of our dreams. It has reportedly been crossed with the related edible Cudrania tricuspidata , though some question the validity of the cross and the fruits from that hybrid were certainly not edible when I tried them (in fact they looked and tasted a lot like regular Osage orange fruit). The 16% protein dry weight of osage orange fruit, as well as the small but edible seeds, would be a great addition to a future cold-climate perennial staple crops.”
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The tale I heard was that they gathered Maclura fruits, bletted them in a barrel of water, stirred to a slurry-like mixture, then plowed a furrow where they wanted the ‘living fence’ of Osage Orange, and poured the slurry of seeds & pulp along the furrow, and Voila! a high-stem-density population of OO seedlings arose where they wanted the ‘hedge’.
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I don’t insult anyone. I have not called anyone a liar. I talk about the fruit. People who disagree with me like to talk about me instead of the fruit, just as you are doing. I have only pointed out that many nurseries will sell anything and try to make it sound wonderful which they do with many tree not just che.
There are not lots of people on this forum, or anywhere, who say that “che is very, very good”.
Most people have little or no experience growing or eating che fruit. I have 25 years experience growing it and giving fruit to other people so they can try it. Most people like it when they first try it but no one is ever excited by it. But after a few years of sampling che, most people quit eating it. Some people hate it the first time they tried.
When you get a chance please explain why in most areas animals refuse to eat che.
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The popularity of food and music are not comparable.
When no country on the planet likes a particular fruit, that is a good metric.
When a country that has had serious food security issues won’t eat a fruit, that is a good metric.
When so many different animals refuse to eat a fruit, that should get your attention. When birds that eat figs and cherries and plums and apples and pears refuse to touch che fruit, that should make you think.
I think we can all agree that nursery catalogs are at least a little deceptive. I’ve never eaten che, but my expectation of it is about like my expectation of raisin tree- Hovenia dulcis. Probably not the type of thing to be eaten by the bushel full, but maybe more of a curiosity and a nibble. I’ve read most of the disparaging things you’ve written about Che, and weighed them. I’m also encouraged somewhat by the people who DO like them. Dunno, don’t really care to speculate too far beyond that. I have 3 acres of trees, what’s another one?
I don’t think anyone is trying to invalidate your experience, which sounds like it’s substantial. There is a lesson I have to relearn or remind myself of at times, but it applies equally well to being a parent (which I am) and to circumstances in which I am the experienced one trying to advise the young and green upstart. That lesson is that certain things can only be learned through experience. We can tell our kids not to make the mistakes we did, but it seldom carries the gravitas that it might considering the effort and emphasis we attempt to place on it. Maybe you’re right, and you’ll be entitled to all of the told you so’s. Until then, I’d suggest not taking it so hard. People want to make up their own minds, which is not an unreasonable concept either. Even if they are foolish in your eyes.
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I like and grow all of the fruits you mentioned, except Arbutus and Sorbus. Not that I’ve tried many Sorbus except maybe ‘Ribena’ and some random wild types. I did have some REALLY strange hybrid Sorbus bred by Luther Burbank once. If you think medlars are strange, this is a horse of a different color still. Maybe you’ve had them, @castanea ?They’re kind of good, but in a way that makes me think you might describe them as “unwholesome”. You eat a couple and feel you’ve had enough, was roughly my experience, though I don’t regret having eaten them. But that also gets at the potential of breeding, for though they’re strange and not 100% toothsome, Burbank was able to increase the size and palatability of Sorbus fruits by an order of magnitude or more in his own lifetime, all while breeding a million other things!
I can’t grow Arbutus here, but I would if I could. It’s another one that is often described as bland and insipid, but I find them quite tasty. I have a whole mess of medlars. Definitely more than is reasonable. But then I have hawthorn popping up everywhere, so theres rootstock aplenty, and already planted. They make a fabulous butter or membrillo style paste, I think. Many to most turn up their noses at medlar, though it’s been well regarded by some throughout history, and a scarce few appreciate them still on their merits. The paste is usually quite popular when I bring it to gatherings. It goes quickly.
I’d be surprised if things are as monolithic as you’re portraying them @castanea . Maybe weird fruits are for weird people?
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Your description of that hybrid reminds me of sea buckthorn. While I’ve not had them fresh, the times I’ve had the juice… well, let’s just say it’s a very acquired taste, and mouth feel, and is kinda oily? It’s weird man, weird.
In hindsight, sea buckthorn is probably what I should have used as an example rather than the other ones.
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Looking closer at the hybrid Sorbus, it appears Burbank had a better start than I imagined in Sorbus domestica. I’m not sure how they are traditionally eaten in Central Europe, but I was instructed to eat the bletted drops from the Burbank trees and they had something of a gritty chocolate pudding flavor and consistency. I wouldn’t call them unpleasant, but they’re definitely an acquired taste
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I thought about buying one of those and wound up getting medlar instead. Your description makes them sound not so good. Glad I picked right. Hardly anyone carries Sorbus domestica anyways.
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I’ve got both now. One of my medlars is blooming profusely, so heres to hopping i get to try some this year. So far they have been easier to manage than stone fruit for me here.
Sounds like it would make a good vinaigrette.
You can try it for yourself fairly easily. Most big cities have at least one eastern European (ie Russian/Ukrainian) grocery store, often marketed as a ‘Euro mart’ or something like that. Look for juice containers labeled облепиха.
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That gives me hope that maybe, just maybe, I might end up liking it. I think Luis also mentioned good flavor.
Burbank bred Sorbus hybrids? I gotta read through his stuff again. I thought most of the Sorbus hybrids were bred by Michurin. I’ve been wanting to obtain Desertnaja for a long time, but it seems no one has it in the US. Apparently sweet and good.
There’s some comments on the Osage Orange post of Green Deane’s blog (Eat The Weeds). Amidst the myriad comments recommending it for medicine, there’s a couple of comments mentioning that it turns edible out of hand after going through multiple freeze & thaw cycles, and that it can be processed into jams or baked into pies.
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Green Dean’s post:
The comments regarding Osage Orange’s edibility are anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt. I myself wouldn’t mind sampling the fruit. There’s also issues with latex sensitivity to watch out for. One commenter noted differences in ripeness, with less ripe fruit bleeding latex, and riper fruit smelling sweeter and tasting citrusy (no bleeding). Screenshots:
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Hmmm, I may have to try that. Boy, if Che is “unwholesome”, what adjective would be appropriate for Osage?
Do we happen to know how they feel about juglans, and if it makes any difference if they are on Che or Osage rootstock?
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