My biggest worry is the comparatively short growing season here, zone 6A. Cricket Hill Garden recommends a male for early ripening in colder zones. He says his Che in zone 6 never ripened until he put in a male. I mean I could obviously wait a while and see if mine ever ripen fruit without a male, but I figured I’d get a head start and put in a male now. But I don’t want a bunch of volunteer seedlings sprouting up, so that’s why I was curious what other people were experiencing with pollinated che.
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Back in 1999, my friend Richard Moyer, then living in the Bristol,VA area, penned this missive on Che on the now all-but dead NAFEx email discussion group:
"We have had Che fruit in for 7 years. Putin both a male and female plant. Survived 14 below several winters ago. Blooms after frost; has not frozen out in five or so years (am away from my notes), unlike our mulberry. No observed disease or insect problems. Birds are a problem, have netted the female. Disease and insect resistance similar here to mulberry and fig, which are in same family (Moraceae).
Pollination is the adventure with this plant: The male sets fruit but most of these fall off; a few of them will ripen and be identical to female fruit. Male died to ground two winters ago; the female still set a full crop of seedless fruit. The male grew back last year, bloomed this year and acted like a female by setting the largest crop of ripening fruit yet. (It may be in the process of some type of conversion; time will tell.) Some debate has gone on for the need of a male pollinator. I’m not sure that I had any less fruit without the male two years ago. Our plants are on the far side of the field and hence do not merit close observation; my kids eat most of the fruit with the birds.
Both our plants are grafted onto Osage Orange. Hence, if you know how Osage Orange does on yours or similar land, this should suffice for your site.
A.J. Bullard let a single stem go up to 8-9 ft, and cuts all others off, he
has a nice form as the result. A number of our limbs on our bush are on the ground.
Hidden Springs grafts theirs onto Osage Orange if I recall correctly; they
do not grow seedling trees of Che. If you mean they graft an unnamed
“seedling”, they then are no different from any other nursery, to my
knowledge. Don’t know of anyone who has selected and named superior cultivars from the wild (somewhere in China?) My impression of the one nursery that sells a seedless selection is that this if merely a female. My sample size is too small to determine the value of two for pollination vs one female.
We are at 1800’ zone 6, we rarely get into the 90s; we are on the borderline for enough heat to ripen Che fruit. In a cool summer, defoliation in fall will occur before last of fruit is ripe.
Ripe fruit has a strawberry color, knotty exterior like Osage Orange, tastes a bit like pear and fig to us; sweet but not overly so. Strange in that slightly unripe fruit leaves a metallic taste in my mouth.
In summary, an overlooked minor fruit. Well worth the effort to put in as a carefree, dependable producer in our area. The Blacks at Hidden Springs have made a jam with them. Lee Reich plans to include a chapter on this plant in his second edition of ‘Uncommon Fruits Worthy of Attention’.
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Are all female che self fruitful?
That is my understanding from all postings about Che. But the females will drop all fruit for a few years making people panic; but apparently after year 3 of fruiting they begin to hold onto it.
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My california dreaming seedless che… is evidently a female.
It produces fruit (seedless) with no other che present.
It produced first fruit in year 3… it colored up some but all dropped before ripening.
In year 4 it set fruit and dropped about half of it… and the other half ripened that fall. It had good sweet watermelon/raspberry flavor.
Nice texture like a strawberry… seedless.
Last fall year 5… it set and ripened all fruit.
I did not get to taste any myself (was on carnivore diet for two months) but my wife and son ate plenty. My son kept describing the taste last year as having the taste of vanilla.
I did not taste that in year 4.
It seems the flavor may have gotten more complex in year 5.
Hopefully I get to taste some this year.
Note… last spring… I grafted my CHE to osage orange… and it grew very well. I planted it in my new orchard last fall and it made 5.5 ft tall and started on scaffold branches.
TNHunter
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Were you able to make a hybrid yet?
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I got to wander around my yard today. The prolongued cold does not appear to have done a lot of damage. Almost everything shows buds in one stage or another.
But, I suspect I have lost both of my little Che’s. Something seems to like to eat more than can grow each year. One of them has about a two foot Osage that has taken over the root, so I guess I’ll be practicing Che grafting this spring.
Pretty sure I have also lost the little mulberry that was close by and assorted walnuts have significant freeze damage on some of the smaller branches. I’m looking forward to everything being bigger than they are now.
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Nope. None of the Che cuttings I’ve tried struck, even after several attempts from several sources. I’m thinking of splurging for an actual rooted tree at this point, but they tend to run a little expensive.
Meanwhile, cochinchinensis cuttings failed, an air layer succeeded, but after months of growing it neglectfully (no repotting, little soil, overwatered), it succumbed to root rot. I need to take a couple more layers. There have been no further blooming events, and I cut back the viney trees heavily, and they’re re-sprouting now. I left an older branch on the unknown tree, and recently fertilized with potassium sulfate, so I’m hoping it might flower for me at least once. In case it also turns out male, I’ve requested seeds for this species from Bellamy, since my original source has gotten much more expensive and complicated in shipping out of Australia.
I also ordered M. tinctoria seeds from Marcos on the other forum, and am waiting for them to get sent to me. I’m also waiting on pomifera seeds from Raindance. It may take a few years, but at this rate I might actually succeed at crossing Maclura before producing the bramble hybrids.
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Can you graft Che on mulberry vs osage orange? Or root it?
The BRN mulberry rootstock is much larger than the Che rootstock.
I may have some extra Che varietes to giveaway otherwise (please msg me beforehand to reserve Che scions if i can’t use, i prob will since i have more mulberries to graft to those mulberry rootstocks).
Went down that road a few years back myself. Does not graft to mulberry and rooting it produces lots of root suckers and thorns. They graft it to osage to keep the suckers in check and more of a tree form.
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Can anyone with multiple che fruits recommend their favorite variety?
i dont have any personal info…
But this page had some recs:
Bottomline: the safest purchase is Che tree sold as, “seedless che” or “seedless female.” The Seedless Che from Edible Landscaping is the standard. Edible Landscaping and other nurseries offer it. The key words are, “seedless che” or “seedless female.” Secondarily, a Norris (Norris TVA), California Dreaming, and ‘Darrow’ seedless female are varieties that I also recommend. (For disclosure, I make NO commission from the latter).
Three KEY questions to ask before buying a Che tree:
- is it a self-fertile female tree? You want a self-fertile female tree.
- will it develop long thorns or, a only few thorns (if any) when the tree is young? You want a tree with no thorns, or a few thorns when young.
- is it grafted onto Osage Orange; that, the Che tree will not sucker? You do not want a suckering Che tree IF you’re a gardener like me.
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Marta’s done some good reviews this year.
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I have the seedless Che from Edible Landscaping, I would not recommend it. Were it not so healthy, I would remove it. I get fruit set, but fruit doesn’t ripen for me (and it is still very warm/nice weather) when the fruit drops. My tree is well over a decade old and has set fruit for at least 10 years. I plan on removing a big part of it this next spring.
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I’ve heard similar reports, which is the primary reason I haven’t planted one yet!
Is Che easy to graft at all? I have lots of Osage orange trees around here that I can graft.
Same here after 20 years.
yes, it’s easy to graft.
This pic was taken… October 25.
My first pic of ripe CHE fruit was Sept 23rd.
Last pic Nov 5.
California Dreaming seedless CHE from Englands Orchard.
It taste like a mix of watermelon and raspberry… not a watery flavor… but more of a syrupy flavor like a fig.
I enjoy them every fall.
TNHunter
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My supposedly rotted cochinchinensis air layer survived and is actively growing healthy again. I still haven’t air layered the second tree (first is a male, second is a mystery). The tinctoria seeds I sowed have not sprouted, and I suspect that they won’t. [Side note: I saw some online images of tinctoria, and the male flowers look way different to the other Maclura flowers, long, like catkins. I wonder what this means for relatedness.] Today I planted some pomifera seeds for rootstock, and I expect decent results, since I stratified them in the fridge (I also sowed some stratified Rubus neomexicanus). I planted a Stephenson Che cutting, and like clockwork it rotted. But, I grafted a second cutting onto my male cochinchinensis, and it took! Not sure what to expect in the long term, though. Here’s a pic of the graft, and another comparing the leaves:
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