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In the 50+ years Iāve made my living from soil and plants Iāve seen mythical claims made about a wide range of products. The only thing that consistently lives up to that kind of hype, in my experience, is good drainage and all the nitrogen a plant needs to sustain the vigor one wants.
Focus on good drainage, maintaining a soil with above 3% organic matter and donāt punish it with drought and along with the nitrogen, you will likely get about the best results you can. I consider generous nitrogen to be an asset during a treeās establishment, after that dial it down to only whatās needed. Understand that fruit trees are not corn and that leaner soils tend to produce higher quality (sweeter) fruit.
I use compost in my vegie garden, mostly, but also dress trees I plant from my nursery with stuff I buy from a yard thatās made from yard waste and wood chips. Compost is proven to work consistently as a soil amendment mostly for 2 reasons- it increases available water and also provides slow release N. The best bang for the buck in most soils is to spread it on the top and put wood mulch over that. I use about 5 cubic feet of it for every tree I plant in normal soil. I only incorporate it into problem soils where trees have difficulty growing. I am creating something like a typical forest soil with its parfait of textures that starts with the self-mulching primarily of leaves. The roots of trees draw most of their sustenance from the top foot of soil in temperate climates.
It is an unusual soil that is so deficient of an essential nutrient that the problem is noticeable, beyond the question of pH.
Compost tea may be helpful in some situations, but it has become an industry of landscapers and arborists to extract money from clients without actually serving a purpose. This is typical of such businesses. Buyer beware.
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I had 2 persimmon seedlings in a planter pot a couple years agoā¦ and mid summer the new leaves (growing tips) on them started turning yellowā¦ you could see the veins in the leavesā¦
Some here suggested they were defficient in somethingā¦ perhaps some type of trace mineral ?
I filled a couple 5 gal buckets with water and added compost and also added bone meal, gypsum, elsom salt, greensandā¦ in small qty.
I mixed it up well and just let it set in the shade for a week.
Then I watered those persimmons with water from that concoction (not true compost tea) or at least not how most make it. More like a cold compost soup loaded with trace minerals.
Within a week or two of watering them with thatā¦ had nice green healthy looking new persimmon leaves the rest of that season.
I normally just compost in place with my fruit trees, layers of compost, wood chips and occasionally a layer of grass clippings.
After a few years of thatā¦ if you dig down into thatā¦ very nice rich soil full of earth worms.
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I grow canefruits and fruit trees mostly (perennials)ā¦so for me i want a mostly fungal dominant environmentā¦which is why i add woodchips. I think i have posted pics of mushrooms and fungis growing in and on my woodchipsā¦
If you ever wonder why forests and trees and canefruits on forest edges grow so well without humansā¦ they supply their own fungal dominant environment by shedding leaves and falling branches and trees etc etc. which feeds the fungis which feed the roots etc etc.
Yards and grasslands that look nothing like forest floor is a bacterial dominant environmentā¦ which is why they really dont need human interventionā¦ the grasses die and roots die and then are consumed by bacteria to feed the new offspringā¦ So a bacterial dominant compost is good for annuals and gardens and lawns and walkways i think.
I dont want to get into what bacterias sprayed via compost tea will ākillā or āeatā this or that on leaves as a foliar sprayā¦that is up to each person to decide if they need or want that.
Worms feed on bacterias and fungis, nematodes, rotifers, protozoans and probably things that we dont even have names for or understandā¦ so the more diverse your orchard or growing areas are the more worms have to eat and thriveā¦and make their own ācompostā.
This is all purely as i understand itā¦ and what i think is right for me and what i enjoy out of my growing areas. YMMV.
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I wondered if this was true when reading it as it was new to me. Chatai gave me a quick answer.
"Prairie soils are often characterized by grasses and herbaceous plants that produce relatively fast-decomposing organic matter. This organic matter tends to promote the growth of bacteria, which are more efficient at breaking down simple carbohydrates and other readily available substrates. Consequently, prairie soils often have a higher abundance of bacteria.
On the other hand, forest soils are dominated by trees and woody vegetation, which produce more complex organic matter such as lignin and cellulose. These compounds are more difficult to decompose and are better suited for fungal decomposition. Therefore, forest soils tend to have a higher abundance of fungi relative to bacteria."
That said, and I truly thank you for your informative comment, there are many possible reasons for trees to flourish in a forest soil compared to a more homogeneous prairie soil such as physical differences created by the heavy top down mulching from leaves, which seems likely the larger factor by my thinking.
These systems are immensely complex and defy simple explanations. The fungi that break down organic matter may not even be the same species that benefit trees and some may attack them. Mycorrhizal fungi may not need organic matter so much as the carbs they get directly from tree roots. .
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Is it good or badā¦ to mix the two up ?
For exampleā¦ compost, wood chips and grass clippings.
I have been doing that and getting very good growth.
I have found that a layer of grass clippings does a much better job of suppressing weeds than wood chips alone does.
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Are persimmon trees particularly susceptible to trace mineral deficiencies? Iām thinking maybe they are. I do believe compost tea as a drench can be a quick fix to an existing nutrient deficiency. When it provides minerals capable of foliar absorption it probably can work that way too. Were you using a fertilizer with micros at the time of the deficiency? Potted trees often suffer from the lack of things commonly available in the soil.
I just donāt think it should be part of a maintenance program for plants that havenāt shown any signs of deficiency. I donāt have time for procedures Iām not sure are helpful- I spend too much time writing comments like this one.
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[quote=āTNHunter, post:29, topic:62610ā]
Is it good or badā¦ to mix the two up ?
[/quote]IMO good. The grass clippings will reduce the amount of N sucked up from the soil to decompose the wood chips, although that sucking is fairly superficial and a good soil will support wood chip mulched trees just fine.
To my mind, grass clippings are a fine fertilizer in general- for almost any plant you are trying to invigorate. Anything mulched with grass should be getting all the N it can use. The problem occurs when grass gets soppy and foul, which can happen when it is in large piles.
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compost tea can be helpful if you donāt have enough compost to cover your garden. Also I personally find it easier to apply than to put compost down everywhere. But I usually use it when Iām short on compost. Also, pretty great for inoculating your mulch before laying it down. Especially if the tea is fungal dominant.
Iāve also heard of it preventing fungal diseases, etc. but Iāve never used it as a foliage spray.
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I have a chinese hawthorn, that has been sickly for the last 6 some years. Every years it has few flowers and then no fruit. This year its loaded with blooms, quite beautiful and looks healthy, no sign of disease yet. Only thing different is the foliar spray and soil drenched with teaā¦āboiled onion /garlic/old bananas, seaweed/ leftover tea or coffee grinds together. Once it cooled down, added molasses, and then some apple cider vinegar or fermenting rice water to innoculate it. No exact measurement. Filter and bottle, let it ferment a few days and the diluted 1:5, sometimes 1: 10 and sprayed it on roses, fruit trees etcā even the sickly/ dud of an apple tree I have is loaded with bloomsā¦ i would say it worked for me 
I am also making tea, with all the weeds from the garden/comfrey leaves, soak in water for a week or two(will stink bad) ā¦if you can put a pump to oxygenate the tea- no stink. Dilute and apply, loaded with nutrients and nitrogen. I have been focusing on homemade fertilizer and recycling things in my yard. All the leftover gunk from weed tea is used as mulch for veggies or fruit trees, breaks down really fast.
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Iām not suggesting that compost tea doesnāt work, I am suggesting that applying compost is less work and has the same effect. Composting in place is even better
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I recently attended a presentation and discussion on Soil Health Residue Management at the local community college by the Regional Extension Agronomist from Washington State University Extension. As a home owner with only 4 acres, I felt a bit out of my class with a large-scale alfalfa on one side and wheat farmer on the other. The question was raised about what organic wheat farmers in the area use for pesticide/fungicide. We were told that one thing they use is compost tea; spread by the big tanks they have for normally spreading liquid herbicides. I would love to learn more about that, but was fascinated that it is used commercially in the Northwest as part of their regimen!
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Thatās reminds me. I need to make some tea for my garden. Life is always throwing twists. Iāve had incredible fast results using different teas. They can be quicker and safer. Sure does stink the way I do it I use a paint strainer to keep the flies out. Thanks.
Do not assume that commercial growers or pedigreed agronomists are immune to fashion. I just spent 15 minutes searching for legitimate research on the efficacy of compost tea as a useful fungicide and/or fertilizer and all I found was articles about research being done and no completed experiments that indicated its efficacy.
Iām not saying such research doesnāt exist, but I wonāt believe it does until I see it.
I assume if you leach out useable nitrogen in the brewing process that a foliar app would work, but foliar apps of N only take you so far.
Back when I was all organic I used to make alfalfa tea to give plants a quick nitrogen fix- then Iād use the left over alfalfa as a mulch for the plants. I figure that gets the N to their roots more quickly.than just spreading alfalfa cubes at the base of plants.
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You donāt live near enough to town for a chipdrop.com chip drop (or maybe you donāt like the quality of their chips)?
I signed up a couple of years ago but Iāve never gotten a drop. Iām out in the middle of corn fields. I guess they donāt want to drive that far.
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That may be, but, also, after a while, your request āexpiresā, and you need to ārenewā it, I believe. Also, if you pay a little bit, it may incentivize them to drop the chips, and end up costing less than buying the chips piecemeal.
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Thatās worth a shot. It probably did expire.
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Greatness. Let us know how it goes!
@belowtheterrace Call around to friends and see if you know an arborist with a chipper. or cold call some tree care outfits. offer a case of beer or $40 or whatever.
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