@Centex
1 foot of topsoil on top of lime clay + irrigation by drip lines is a recipe for maturing trees uprooted by stiff winds.
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Or the tree will send feeder roots in the topsoil and anchor roots lower, which probably happened in Whitcomb’s experiments- the roots picked up the iron they needed in the very shallow layer of more acidic soil but still used the lower soil for water and certain nutrients. If that doesn’t work there’s always the metal conduit posts that commercial growers use here to keep apples on M7 from toppling in high wind on their 5th season or so. Keep in mind that a drip system can also water deeply with longer less frequent applications- why wouldn’t roots grow to follow the water?
Trees I’ve planted on mounds in very wet soils have not been very susceptible to falling over, but that isn’t the same as highly calcareous soil- the anchor roots in the mounds I make are essentially in mud most of the year. The orchard on pulverized concrete hasn’t had any trees fall over after 15 years. No drip system, though, and the site is pretty well protected from wind.
A tree that topples doesn’t tend to be much of a problem, however, at least when it’s reasonably young and roots are strong enough to pull out without breaking. You just lift up the tree and support it with duck-bills and wire or just a strong sapling with a crotch. In my own orchard I’ve had quite a few apple trees fall over the last 3 decades, even though I don’t grow them on mounds and I’m protected from winds. I propped them back up and in one case used a cedar post as a semi-permanent support. The trees continued to thrive and eventually stabilized.
Olpea’s orchards are in KS where they get very strong winds. He manages peaches in clay on raised berms heavily mulched with wood chips. That might seem to be a recipe for toppling trees when loaded with fruit- the mulch should inspire shallow roots in a heavy clay.
At any rate, no one can say for sure what will work best at this particular site, but most people would start with the simplest plan and work from there. It only takes a few minutes to pound in a heavy piece of metal electric conduit and it lasts for years- just don’t nick it with your pruning saw.
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@richard I understand your concern but in the previous plantings the roots have penetrated the existing soil. The problem was nutrient uptake.
Actually I anticipate that the roots will penetrate the old soil level but that the roots in the old soil will not uptake nutrients. That’s my reason for using deep beds. But evidently they don’t need to be as deep as I thought.
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@Centex
For perennial fruit trees, the volume of harvest is proportional to the volume of roots.
If your irrigation water will also be alkaline, you can correct with chemigation by N-pHuric. The calibrated dosage for my pH=8.1 water is 1 ml per 2 gallons. It is available in totes from agricultural dealers, e.g. Nutrien Ag.
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looking forward to hearing what you got!
Did you go out and do a soil type test? I dug up a bunch of spots and did the kind where you put the soil in a jar with water and shake it up. I think it was informative.
@benthegirl i sent it to Ward Laboratory in Nebraska on the recommendation of a local organic farmer that I know that used them. In the past I have used Texas A&M but I wanted to see how they both do it.
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@fruitnut I have attached a soil sample from Texas A&M. I am perplexed by the results. The testing background is that I sent a sample from a Brazos River commercial sand pit operation close to my previous land that had tested at 6.8 pH. The sample tested at 8.4 pH. Not sure it was accurate I sent it to a second lab and it was the same result. Visually there is no reason for the sandy loam to be that high… in other words it is not near the high pH limestones that begin a few miles west. I wondered if the sample was taken close to a gravel deposit that may have affected the soil, so I sent this attached sample from another Brazos Valley pit 30 miles away. I know that soil to be 6.7-6.8 on the surface because a neighbor at the pit is an organic farmer and told me his readings. Anyway the present reading is 8.5 pH. I am curious if anyone has an idea of why the pH would be this high. Is it possible that deeper soil has a higher pH? Maybe it’s closer to underground gravel deposits that drive up the pH?
Soil.Gholson.pdf (297.8 KB)
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The nutrient concentration in the soil sample is 97.1% Calcium.
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Yup. That’s definitely limestone soil. Look closely at the sand, is it all quartz?
The limestone a couple miles away could’ve been eroding into this area for tens of thousands of years
There’s basically no other way you could get that much calcium with large amounts of magnesium and sulfur and that characteristic boron trace. That’s from limestone
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Is their any explanation for surface soil readings to be around 6.8? I’m guessing the deeper soil received accumulations from limestone leeching downward…?
If you’re talking the top 1/2" or something that could just be rainwater (acidic) leeching the limestone out of that top tiny bit. Any sample from below a couple inches will be much more representative of your actual soil
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The samples that tested at 6.8 were taken from various holes at least six to twelve inches deep and then mixed. That soil grew excellent stone fruit.
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The sample appears to have free lime mixed in. In other words, some of the sand is limestone or a similar material.
It is normal in Texas that deeper layers of soil are higher pH than the topsoil.
I’m not sure I’m fully understanding the situation. But those are my thoughts.
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If the soil has been there a long time the rainwater can leech it that far down
Look into different soil horizon diagrams and dig a cross section of your soil to understand it better
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The property is near Waco. Shallow disconformities are common in that region. The layers are well-mapped owing to petroleum deposits nearby.
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A quick look at the USDA soil survey (Web Soil Survey) for that zip code shows that most of the parent material for the soil is “Calcareous residuum weathered from chalk”
Check what the soil survey says with a more accurate address.
Either your neighbor is wrong or he has a small plot with different soil somehow (like @Richard says - you can always end up in a little fold or ridge or depression with a funny soil type.)
Even if you build on raised beds, the moment you irrigate you will have a problem in this soil. Check the pH of the water you will irrigate with. You will likely need to acidify the water.
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