When you talk about adding a surfactant to Surround, are you talking about adding a couple drops of dish soap or something else?
Any type of dishwashing liquid soap breaks down water surface tension and acts to make the slurry sticky. The first time you spray it will run off the apple if not with surfactant. Only a tablespoon in2 gal is needed. Now if I am spraying apples or any fruit that will benefit from boron treatment I used 20 mule team powder in addition to give the foliage some boron.
Dennis
1 Like
Spray Sevin weekly from petal fall for three weeks. That should clear āem out.
I donāt think Surround has enough added benefit if you are already using a poison.
2 Likes
Thanks scottfsmith,
I think I will probably just use the Sevin. Maybe if I can get the population down on the PC I can start to reduce the spraying overtime but ill hit them with an aggressive spray schedule next year. Hopefully the spraying will help me get some fruit next year.
Thanks again,
Matthew
2 Likes
I forgot to answer you about Clemson bags. It is effective if
- You put them on fruit before bugs drill a hole in them (some newly damaged fruit is not easy to spot)
- you put them on well so they do not get blown away by wind gust
- you follow the recommendation of spraying fungicide and pesticide before bagging. Because you need to wait for peaches to reach a thumb size to bag. By then, if you donāt spray, almost, if not all, of your peaches would be ruined.
- Clemson suggested one spray of insecticide and fungicide (due to brown rot) . My experience is that that is not enough for my area. Even with two times, I still got some brown rot and bug damage. This year I sprayed the combo 3 times before I bagged.
Why bag? So I donāt have to spray any more for the rest of the season for my peaches/nectarines. Also, I only have a few trees so bagging is not too much work.
1 Like
Thanks for the bag information. I will look into getting some and maybe bag some just for added protection and see how they work for me.
You can order them here. It need practicing to be efficient at it. You will learn which fruit to keep based on their position on a branches and twigs. You want to position them in a way that they are easy to bag.
https://www.clemson.edu/extension/peach/commercial/diseases/clemsonfruitbags.html
2 Likes
In my younger days in a commercial orchard the standard mix was Captan and Imidan for everything, and it worked pretty well. Now I follow IPM practices and use only Surround on peaches. For me itās great because the small percentage of fruit that gets dinged by the Curculio is easy to spot and remove in the near constant fruit thinning I have to do. What I really hate is Peach tree borer, but Iāve found that Spinosad seems to control them used as a soil drench, along with protecting the trunks.
3 Likes
I second the Clemson bags. I sprayed with Surround, Indar and spinosad several times after petal fall, then bagged peaches/nects. Peaches did well this year. The nects though suffered a lot of PC damage I didnāt discover until much later. The disease fruit will ooze/discolor inside the bag or just wither and fall off the branch. I just bought Avaunt for next year as Surround and Clemsons just arenāt sufficient here. Clemson bags are easily reused if not torn. Iām reusing them on tomatoes now.
1 Like
I have used Clemson bags for 4-5 years now. I want to spray as organically and as minimally as I can. However the mixture of Surround, Spinosad and Indar (twice) before bagging has not been enough.
In a good year, I got about 20% damaged fruit and in a bad year, the damage was up to 40% in the Clemson bags (more brown rot than bug damage)
After all the work including bagging, the %of damage fruit was too high. I am tired of a low return on my investment. This year, I sprayed Indar and zeta-cypermethrin 3 times before I bagged, i have noticed little damage from PC, OFM or CM.
However, I got more damage from stinkbugs and Tarnished Plant bugs more than usual. I think they started feeding before all petal fall (not every fruit have the same petal fall time line). I just donāt want to spray when some flowers are still blooming. Zeta cypermethrin is lethal to bees and other beneficial insects.
If my bagged peaches have less brown rot this year, indar 3 times is an answer.
1 Like
40% damage wouldnāt be so bad if you didnāt go to the trouble and expense of bagging. Iām surprised you have to bag fruit where you are because pest pressure should be about the same as where I am and Surround works pretty well for the orchards here. My sched for Surround is 4 sprays once a week beginning when last apples are starting to lose their petals (as opposed to have lost most of them in my synth schedule).
However, last year one of the people who does some spraying for my organic customers got confused and waited an extra week- did 4 sprays 2 weeks apart and we still got good results at the 3 orchards he sprayed for me. It makes me wonder if we couldnāt succeed with 3 sprays 10 days apart- Iām pretty sure that 4th spray was a waste of time as spring pest pressure was over by then- we donāt get much apple fly maggot here for some reason.
For brown rot, a single spray of Indar a month before a variety ripens generally does the trick except with nectarines and cherries when they are cracking. But I use Tactic as a sticker and that might make a difference in efficacy of Indar because latex works better than pine resins. I believe thorough coverage of fruit is as important with Indar as it is with Surround and it can be hard to really cover the bottom of fruit with a hand sprayer.
Incidentally, Iām currently harvesting apricots that didnāt receive a single insecticide (or Surround) spray this year, just a single app of Indar about 6 weeks ago. Not a single insect bite or worm so far with Early Blush and the harvest is in.
Alan,
Yes, because I bag so it is frustrating to see that much damage. I know that Scott also said one or two Indar works for him. It does not work for me, period. I can see it on my cherries. I never bag cherries, of course. They got two spray of Indar. Still, there was brown rot on some fruit every year.
This year everything got 3 or 4 Indar, we will see.
Because I bag so I could not get Indar on peaches a week or two because peaches ripen like it is recommended. That could be why I still got brown rot in bagged peaches esp. almost all of them are late peaches so they were in the bag from early June to early to mid Sept. 3 solid months.
I do not believe 3 spray 10; days apart will work for me. This year, I sprayed 3 times a week apart with Indar and the new Sevin. While PC and OFM damage was minimal but I got several catfacing damage on small peaches (I suspect Tarnished Plant bugs) . What surprised me most is a lot of stinkbug damage on my Asian pears. Lots more than I ever seen. I sprayed as early as petal fall but it was not early enough for some pests, obviously.
Although we have 2 generations of OFM, I have seen shoot flagging into late Sept. I donāt think 4 spray of Indar and Sevin would be enough, either without bagging. I think Sevin does not have a kick back effect like Imidan does. A kick back effect is a huge advantage to those using Imidan. You can spray 10 -14 days apart with it.
Between every 7 day Sevin, Iāve seen a few pest damage. I am sure if I spread it to every 10 days I would have seen more damage. We have trees, bushes, leaf litter, etc. everywhere in my neighborhood, a perfect place for those buggers to hide and live on.
1 Like
Here 10-14 days apart works for PC with both Avaunt and Asana, a pyrethroid. You talk about your little orchard and Iām talking about 100 orchards all over my region, some with several acres of apples.
I have been to a site where a customer had me wait extra long for first spray because of a wedding and saw PC crawling all over fruit, and still got adequate control with a delayed spray.
Assail is said to have some kickback and I believe is not restricted. Itās not great for PC but OK. However you could mix it with the pyrethroid you are using.
At any rate, you should not have more brown rot pressure there than here, but it may be much harder to control if you put fruit in bags. You didnāt say whether you use a latex sticker.
Alan,
You have used premium chemicals specific for pests you are dealing with. Good for you.
I used chemicals available for backyard growers. I was able to obtain Indar and Nuflim so lucky me. I share my experience from a very small backyard orchard. All my experience is anecdotal, not research-based.
You misunderstand me, Iām trying to figure out if thereās some reason you are missing that is making this harder. That is why I mentioned Tactic a couple of times. Indar is the most dependent product on a good sticker of any I use and it has never failed to protect fruit from brown rot for me, even when used as a rescue spray.
I also have gotten good protection in orchards using Surround with Indar to even get sound nectarines.
I have used Surround+Indar+Spinosad+Nufilm 17 for the past 3-4 years, 2 spray of the mixture before bagging, not quite satisfied with the results.
This year I have switched to a combo of zeta cypermethrin, Indar, Nufilm 17 , 3 times before bagging. I will find out in Sept how well it work for my peaches and nectarines.
1 Like
This may be helpfulā¦ Effectively controlling plum curculio in stone and pome fruits - Fruit & Nuts
1 Like
Have you tried to grow any fruit without bags lately? I get good control of OFM simply by hitting it at first signs of flagging by spraying only growing tips of peach and nect trees using very little over-all spray. They go there before hitting fruit so if you stop them early they shouldnāt be a problem. The new Sevin should accomplish this with a couple of timely sprays.
Are you getting a thick coating of Surround all the way around your fruitletts when you use it? What sticker are you using with Indar?
You havenāt asked me for advice but t will serve all members struggling with PC and brown rot if you clearly explain exactly what procedures have failed to adequately protect your fruit.
Alan,
I have mentioned several times what I have used. I also followed Scottās advice re. Surround religiously. I have tried a lot of things over several years.
I appreciate your help but I think my situation is not bad, all things considered. I am certain that many more members are in tougher situations esp. those new to fruit growing and/or spraying (including the OP) will greatly benefit from your advice and experience. Thank you.
Have you thought about removing the bags about a month to 2 weeks before the fruit matures and spraying with Indar then?
Maybe as a long term solution grafting on Glohaven or buying a Glohaven tree? Glohaven is one of the few peaches that has resistance to brown rot.