This is turning into a great thread I think! Thanks for all the info.
On Tomatoville I met Carolyn Phillips who grows in greenhouses in containers. In Alabama, so shade cloth is used over the greenhouse. She uses a single leader pruning with a rope trellis.
It’s hard to keep disease free. I mentioned copper elsewhere, another to try in place of copper is Chlorothalonil Bonide’s Fung-onil is one product. I have not noticed one product working better than another? Best is good cultural practice. Remove damaged leaves, keep the leaves out of the dirt, etc. Notice how well trimmed the plants are in the first photo I posted.
Yes, it’s not a high yielding plant. I found Indian Stripe to taste as good with better production. A smaller tomato though. I want to try Rosella Purple, hoping it is a better option. What I know about this one.
Rosella Purple -
Maturity midseason
Growth habit dwarf, indet.
Leaf type regular, rugose
Fruit color purple
Fruit shape beefsteak, oblate
Fruit size medium
Fruit type slicer
Variety type created heirloom, stabilized intentional cross
Country Australia, USA, Germany
75 days, tree-type — This was a Victory Seed Company introduction for 2011 and one of the dwarf varieties from the “Dwarf Tomato Project.” Similar to ‘Cherokee Purple’ in color, size, shape and flavor but on a dwarf growing plant. Regular leaf, dark green rugose foliage, stout central stem, grows to three to four feet in height. Perfect for a large container or a small garden space. The fruits are oblate, ranging from six to twelve ounces, and ripen to a deep purple-pink color. Flavor is full, intense, balanced and delicious.
‘Rosella Purple’ originated from a cross between ‘Budai’ (a small red fruited dwarf) and ‘Stump of the World’, made in 2006 by Patrina Nuske Small in Australia. A subsequent selection discovered by Craig LeHoullier led to ‘Rosella Purple’. It was grown out to its ninth generation before being released, and is a quite stable open-pollinated variety, but still may produce the occasional off-type plant.
Others involved in its development are David Lockwood (Australia), Lee Newman, Dee Sackett, Paola Gelmetti, Linda Black, Susan Anderson, Patty Brown, Reinhard Kraft (Germany) and Bill Minkey.
Yes, another good one! I too listen. Many others out there too.
1 Like
Drew,
It sounds like you had a good choice of varieties. Most heirlooms are hard to grow and not ideal for commercial production. I like to grow them as production is of little concern. I have enough for my family. Some though should work well. Another that did well for me is Pink Berkeley Tie-Dye, not a dwarf, but a good producer, and the tomatoes were excellent. Berkeley Tie Dye is not the same, a green tomato I think? The Boar farms releases are the future heirlooms of today. Boar Farms have released a lot of excellent OP types. Some are amazing producers like Sweet Carneros Pink a small tomato.
The only hybrids that interest me is Sungold, and Brady Boy. Many other good ones, but this meets my needs.
1 Like
I grew 3 types from the dwarf tomato project and have kept seed to grow them again. Some are certainly more dwarf than others. I picked the last of these and my other tomatoes when I cleared the garden in early November before the first real frost and we actually had the last of our tomatoes (ripened on the counter from green) in turkey sandwiches a few days ago and they were still great. Here’s what I grew:
Dwarf Orange Cream
Yellow mid-sized tomato on a potato leaf plant that grew with a very dense habit. This was the smallest of the three I grew. Great flavor with more acid bite than you get from most yellows, which I prefer. This was my first tomato (after the cherries) to produce and made very pretty tomatoes. Because it was closely spaced leaves and I didn’t thin them enough they were pretty susceptible to blights, etc. but I expect that would be better if I keep them to one or two strands. I might also try some serenade as a preventative when it gets hot and humid.
Rosella Purple
As was noted above, this is often compared to Cherokee Purple and a neighbor of mine whose loves those said these are even better. But she had only had them from a farmers market, where maybe they are picked early for better keeping, etc. I had read somewhere that a few people felt the texture wasn’t quite as good and I would say I like the texture on Stump of the World (parent) and other beefstakes is a little more silky smooth if that makes any sense. Still a great tomato. It is regular leaf and grew bigger than the Dwarf Orange Cream and was a little less dense. I also grew one in a pot which stayed smaller.
Dwarf Purple Heart
Last year I really wanted to try some heart tomatoes so I grew this one and Fish Lake Oxheart (full sized) which many consider one of the best hearts. I liked the taste of these better although these are purple/black not the pink/red of the FL so they were definitely different and both were really good. In fact, among the people I gave them to many felt these were the best tomatoes I gave them. Of course I kept all of the Stump of the World toms for myself… Like all hearts, these are closer to pastes in terms of the meatiness and are great for cooking, etc. Regular leaves and noticeably the biggest of the dwarfs I was growing. By the way, one of the parents for this one is Brad’s Black Heart, which, besides having a great name, is supposed to be a spectacular tomato. Brad’s is also said to be very susceptible to disease, a shy producer, etc. so I was happy to try this one and find it so delicious and pretty easy to grow.
Because they’re based on heirlooms and selected for flavor, etc. you can basically consider these all in the same category. In other words, you won’t get nearly the production you might from newer hybrids and they aren’t selected for disease resistance, etc. but you do get great flavor. And it is also important to remember that since they are indeterminate they all keep growing and even though they’re smaller, I did have a few get pretty big by the end of a pretty long season in 7A. You definitely need to keep up with pinching suckers to control growth, etc.
Of all the tomatoes I’ve tried, I still like Stump of the World and a chance seedling I found and continued that I call Striped Mystery Beast best for flavor. But I’ll definitely try all three of these dwarfs again with seed I’ve saved and maybe try another one or 2 as well. Not only are they easier to manage, but the thick tree like stem and dense growth make them a more attractive plant than a big sprawling full sized indeterminate.
I bought my original seed from Victory Seeds and the Sample Seed Shop.
3 Likes
Excellent and extremely useful report Zendog, thanks!
I’m going to have to grow Stump of the World now! I have been sitting on seed a couple years. Amazing how much seed I have of tomatoes I have yet to grow! I’m going to refrain from buying more, although I keep a running list of varieties i would like to try.It’s short as I bought most I want to try, just have not tried them! Anyways my list of wanted tomato seed
ANANAS NOIRE
GREEN COPIA
Olena Ukrainian
Coeur d’Albenga
Pear (Giant) Gransasso Strain - sample seed shop
Red Pear (Giant) Abruzzese - sample seed shop
Rose de Berne
Margaret Curtain
1 Like
Tried Fred’s Tie Dye this year. One in my garden and one in a 5 gallon fabric growing pot at my in-law’s. Sturdy plants that only needed a little support when the tomatoes started to form. Big tomatoes for a small (about 3 foot) plant. Can’t remark too much on the taste as we had a very bland year with our tomatoes over all and only really liked our cherry tomatoes (and that was with growing varieties we normally love). But my in-laws really liked it. I’d grow it again if I needed a small size plant. It was pretty disease resistant and was a strong healthy grower. http://www.victoryseeds.com/tomato_freds-tie-dye.html
I know you just wrote that you don’t want to buy any more seeds, but here is a link to some Ananas Noire seeds from Ohio Heirloom Seeds, very reasonably priced. They seem to have very good prices on all their seeds. I grew AN a couple years ago, and they didn’t do well, mostly because of bad disease pressure due to heavy rains and poor housekeeping in the garden. But, that doesn’t mean they won’t do well for you.
http://ohioheirloomseeds.com/products/ananas-noire-tomato-seeds-black-pineapple
I’ll have to keep Indian Stripe in mind, based on your experience. I think I remember Baker Creek selling them. I need to get on their mailing list again for a new catalog.
Thanks for the link, no reason to buy seeds, PM your address, you want Indian Stripe regular leaf? Or potato leaf? Or both? I also have Indian Stripe Heart, but none have germinated for me, plus only a few left to try. Always a chance of a cross, I have yet ever to see one, but many I grow were random crosses, like Girl Girl’s Weird Thing, an awesome tomato.
Thanks Drew, I might take you up on that offer. Since I’m prob not going to try to grow AN next year, maybe you’d like some seeds from my stash? I did a quick perusal of IS online, and found a thread on Tomatoville, and lo and behold, you were on it! Does the PL or RL version do better for you?
Drew51, I have all but 2 of what you are looking for whenever you are ready.
1 Like
I didn’t see a difference. Some say one does better than the other, I have not really seen that. Both did OK for me. What I do remember well is IS tomatoes are good!
At first I thought the PL did better, but after growing them for a couple more years, I didn’t see an advantage one way or the other.
Awesome!! Off subject, those photos of your netting are cool. I saw another user do the same thing a few years ago, blueboy1977, I always wanted to do that too. I may need your help! I have some questions I’ll ask on that thread later. My dumb dog got me up to go out in the middle of the night! He would not go last night because of all the boomers out there, fireworks, gunfire (hey it’s Detroit!). I’m going back to bed…
Sent you a PM, Drew…
Speaking of Dwarf tomatoes, I placed an order on Amazon for Tiny Tim dawrf tomato for my Aerogardens.
Has anyone grown them?
I grew them a few years back just for the novelty of it and I do remember the to be very compact and productive. As for taste I do not remember if I even ate any of them.
What I do remember about them is that they are the perfect size to grow year round in the house.
I believe I do have seeds for them.
Here is a link that some of you may like if you are interested in buying some dwarf varieties. Not sure if she sells all of these though.
http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Category:Dwarf_Tomatoes
1 Like
Even though this is a “classic” post, it’s quite useful. I didn’t know about dwarf tomatoes.
I have been trying to make my garden less labor intensive. As I understand it, dwarf tomatoes are dwarf because of short stout interstem, not because they grow weakly? So maybe a tomato cage or shorter post is adequate?
I was thinking about mulching under my tomatoes this year with newspaper so water doesn’t splash disease onto the low leaves.
I already have seedlings growing for my “tomato limit” but decided to try four varieties of dwarf tomatoes:
Brandy Fred
Tanunda Red
Dwarf CC McGee
Clare Valley Pink.
I will need to decide which of the seedlings to give up to make room for these dwarves. That’s a little like trying to decide which child to give up so the dragon doesn’t destroy the village…
I’m guessing the dwarf habit will make leaf coverage more effective? Last year sunburn was a problem.
As long as the seeds arrive in two weeks or so, I think I’m still in my seed starting window. I ordered priority mail but unclear on benefit of that.
Do dwarf tomatoes grow more slowly? Are they different with disease tolerance?
I assume if I like them, they should come true from saved seeds.
One last question. Do they need pruning side shoots like other tomatoes?
Of your list I grew Brandy Fred, which was tasty, but I lost it early to some type of blight or septoria (can’t remember which). The dwarfs definitely give you good leaf cover and I found a short cage and little to no pruning seems to work well.
In my hot, humid 7A I’ve finally given up on them, though, since I find their stout dense growth makes it harder to manage the diseases. I think spraying with copper might help, but I generally don’t do any spraying with tomatoes. Airflow is really key in my area, so I’m growing mostly indeterminate tomatoes as a single stem which gives me an open growth habit and less issues with disease. In an area with less disease I think they can really be ideal, since they are so easy to manage and there is such a great range of types and colors at this point.
They are all open pollinated and should come true from seed, unless a bee gets frisky with it.
1 Like
Thanks @Zendog for your experience.
Since tomatoes are my favorite annual fruit, I usually grow a lot of them. Our summers are usually dry but with cool nights. I get OK crops as far as sauce tomatoes, and touch and go production as far as slicing tomatoes. My best results for indeterminates has been tie them to a post and remove most of the side shoots, although that might be why I get some sunburn.
I can cover a few flower clusters with mesh bags to keep bees out.
1 Like
By the way if you are looking for a dwarf that can do double duty for sauce and slicing, I really enjoyed Dwarf Purple Heart among the dwarfs I’ve grown. Good size for slicing and flavor, plus nice and meaty for processing.
2 Likes
About six weeks later, here are some of the dwarf tomato plants that I started. All of the seeds were from Victory Seeds.
Some are in the ground, and some are in containers. I chose container size based on reading various websites about how big that variety might become. The Alpatieva 905 and Extreme Bush got smaller size containers. Several plants have flower buds at their tops. I don’t know what that will lead to.
Some of these seem to have a little chlorosis. That has also been true for some of my Romas this year, on planting them out into the garden. New growth is a richer green. I don’t know why that is.
They have really sturdy, stout stems. The rugose leaf trait shows best on the potato leaf types, Brandyfred and CC McGee, but also on the others. Extreme Bush is listed as bearing at 50 days, and Alpatieva 904A as 65 days - that would be late June to early July, which I don’t really believe.
1 Like