ive read its a open pollinated haschberg euro. elder found growing wild in K.S. named after the Wildewood wineries owner that discovered it. the website i read that on also tested it and it is a pure haschberg . not a cross like some websites say.
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That makes sense given that āHaschbergā is self-fertile.
Iāve actually tried to intentionally cross pollinate American and Euro black elderberry, and got zero berries to set from it. Iām not saying itās impossible, just that they donāt seem very prone to crossing.
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It looks like that comparison is all American elderberries except for Marge. It would be more useful to find a chart comparing it with other European elderberries.
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Does anyone know of an elderberry identification chart? There are minor variations in the leaves of my elderberries so thereās gotta be a way to actually identify them. Iām pretty sure at this point that at least 2/4 of my established elderberries are not the variety they were sold as. I supposedly bought 2 pairs of pollinating partners, but they bloom A/C and B/D not A/B and C/Dā¦ Iāve been trying to guess what they are/Iām missing etcā¦
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I agree it would be more useful to find a chart comparing it with other Europeans. I looked and didnāt find anything. I didnāt look that thoroughly though.
The study that chart was from attempted to compare American and European elderberries. The reason āMargeā was the only European included was because all the other European elderberries died. I only have āNovaā and āYorkā so the chart made me want to pick up a European elderberry.
Obviously the study is site specific. Itās interesting though that āHaschbergā died and āMargeā did not since I read the same thing as @steveb4. Seedlings do have an incredible ability to adapt to their environment.
Not related to elderberry, but even apomictic clones can epigenetically adapt to their environment and change. Interesting stuff.
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I was suprised it did so well here as we are nearly as cold as even the most northern parts of the mid west. also suprised it flowered at the same time as my york, johns and wild elder. seems marge is just as adaptable to extreme cold as it is to heat. it would probably more popular if it fruited on 1st. year wood.
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From the nursery stock Iāve seen of European elderberries, I think propagation methodology might be at least partly to blame for failure to thrive. Since the European species does not tend to form rhizomes like the American species, I think the way the cuttings are planted makes a huge difference. The propagation standard Iāve seen for the Europeans is to take cuttings with one node at the base and one or more node above ground. Because the cuttings often have very wide internodal spacing, this typically results in the buried node being too deep to reliably push shoots and the above ground node(s) being higher than ground level. Since they like to push their most vigorous growth from as low on the plant as possible, Iāve had much better establishment using my non-standard protocol for European black elderberry. When making my cuttings I leave enough stem below the lowest node to plant so that the low node is right at ground level. Then when up potting (after shoots have pushed from that node), Iāll place that node slightly below the surface. If this practice were more widely adopted for European elderberries, I think weād see a great improvement in planting stock and subsequent establishment after planting.
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@EJh this validates your observation- Marge has lower avg cyme weight.
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I can vouch that Euros do poorly here (AR). My Hachsberg has yet to grow higher than 3ā and looks like it has the mange. My Marge has been pruned twice now to 7ā and itās nearly double that now, planted at the same time. All the established black lace, etc landscaping euros around here also look like they have the mange. Whatever does that in euros here, Marge does not have.
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Shriveled bubbly-wilted looking damage on new growth? Iām pretty sure itās eriophyid mite damage.
I looked up a picture again, and thatās what I see on mine. It can damage the cymes on established plants sometimes, but they mostly just outgrow it and the plant has a few jacked up looking flower clusters. I only spray for it on new plants Iām trying to get established.
Thereās pictures of other problems there too if youāre seeing something different.
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Great link!
I may have missed it, but I havenāt noticed any distinct mite damage. My Hachsberg leafs out and blooms fine. Sawflies and borers bother all of my elderberry, but never more than they can handle.
The best I can describe it, euros just arenāt excited to grow here. Short internode spacing and thin canes that fall over. Mine still fruits- impressively for its minuscule size actually. But none of the vigorous 3/4ā new canes that shoot up like the others. Maybe something here stunts the roots?
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Iām surprised no oneās mentioned using the flowers. I made some elderflower syrup and elderflower fritters last week from a few wild plants.
My Bob Gordon is blooming for the first time and smells utterly disgustingāa too sweet smell like something rotting. All the wild black elder Iāve encountered has a nice yeasty and citrusy smell like champagne. Has anyone else noticed that particular cultivars have better smelling flowers than others?
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Both John and Adam for me had a very soft light sweet smell. Similar to like a weak lilac smell but very florally, it smelled pretty good, but very weak.
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Anyone have a good water bath elderberry jam/jelly recipe? I found one online from I think Minnesota extension? But curious about anyone else before I use that one.
Interesting. I havenāt noticed much of any scent. But, I have two Bob Gordon that should bloom next year, so weāll see if itās different at my house.
@EJh let me know how the jelly goes. Iāve been exclusively making syrup for the family as a health tonic.
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Iāve had (still have, but have lost IDs on all) a number of the named cultivars (Bob Gordon, Wyldewood, Scotia, Johns, Adams, Nova)ā¦ but in my experience, none have been better than any of the myriad of āvolunteersā (some of which may be seedlings of those cultivars) that have popped up all around the farmstead since I first planted the cultivated varieties.
Have one āvolunteerā that came up in the blueberries several years ago, that has the largest clusters Iāve ever seen. Another, at the edge of a woodchip pile, produces clusters that ripen weeks after all the others are doneā¦ and clusters and all berries in the clusters ripen at the same timeā¦ considering rooting more of it. Picked and froze 1.5 gallons of berries from that one, a couple of weeks ago.
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Look at this overachieving little plant! I believe this is Ranch and it was started from cutting last spring. Itās the smallest by far of the 8 cuttings I planted last year yet has all the flowers.
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Oh wow, thatās early to get flowers! I donāt think there are any formed yet on mine.
Are the named varieties that much better than the wilds?