I’m planting apple seeds to graft unto. My MM 111 trees are too small at least for varieties like Goldrush.
Besides I have way less trees outside and open spots. One where my 4ft tall MM 106 scummed to southwest injury.
I am happy with my M9 and M26 trees but they are on their way out at 20 yrs age. So I planted apple seeds between those two trees which have topped out at about 10ft.
I’ve also just planted apples on dwarfing Geneva rootstocks. So some fodder for comparisons in 5-10 yrs.
Besides I’ve spent enough money on trees this yr. Seedlings will be cheap trees.
I am curious if they just stop producing or if they produce less over a series on years. I have heard so many different remarks of what a tree life is like peach trees only living for 8 years and then someone claims their peach trees are 40 years old and still producing more peaches than they can eat.
I think the confusion comes not from the longevity of the tree but from the best production years. As they grow older they produce less, so commercial growers would replace trees more often than we would. Heck the tree may not be replaced in just 8 years but that being the known window for maximum production it has become the repeated age.
Are they getting pear decline on oxhf simply because they are trying to pretend that they aren’t nearly full size trees with basically the same needs as a full size tree? And packing them too close together and competing against each other to the death? That’s my partially informed opinion. I realize they want an easy picking bud9 situation but I suspect it’s not long term sustainable on the ohxf rootstocks. ohxf87 and 97 can put down some big roots pretty quickly. Even oxhf333 can grow quite large. I sure wouldn’t expect to be able to pack them close together and get good production without a lot of inputs. Eventually the soil is starved and needs a break regardless of how they try to fertigate.
That is what I am saying. When is the commercial age and when would the age it stops bearing be? Say you have a pear or apple that declines in production at 25 because it is a dwarf buts bears fruit for 80 years. At that point it does not matter because in 80 years I will not be alive. Clark has stated standard apple and pear trees can bear over 100 so those likely don’t need to be replaced in a person’s lifetime. I would wonder how long is actually the expected time period for all these to stop bearing. Also on what rootstock. If a standard pear or apple tree bears over 100 years and a dwarf stops at 20 that would be reason to get all standard trees from a homeowners perspective. I see the plum hybrids are often listed as citation rootstock so how long will pluots last on citation vs myro in terms of bearing fruit for example.
The issue usually isn’t that they stop bearing. They die or limbs die. Or they lose so much vigor that bearing slows down. But a tree usually doesn’t last long with a big decline in vigor.
For instance commercial peach orchards in the Southeast can start losing trees after a few yrs maybe 5-8. After 20% die and others decline the orchard is no longer profitable. So it’s taken out.
For the dedicated hobbyist, there are ways to dwarf a tree. I may be biased because my soil and season naturally dwarfs my trees with little effort on my part, but if is usually pretty straight forward to control growth.
If a tree is a tad unruly start by chopping a few big roots while it is dormant. That will route a lot of energy towards growing those back.
I think I have heard of that before. The video claimed it rumor at the end though. Also I can’t be the only one looking at the size of those trees and getting the sense of anxiety. It certainly showcases why some people plant dwarf pears and those trees tower over houses. If true they bear fruit after many of us live on standard though. It also makes you wonder about why the statement of 17 years on OHXF as it seems quite drastic to have a lifespan go from early 19 hundreds to now and still producing to 17 years or around 10 years behind my current age.
Yeah, if you let them get out of hand you can get to the point of no return. I don’t have pears but I think they are the ones that will throw a hissy fit if you top them and will stop producing.
Here pears are among the longest lived trees and I’ve no reason to believe after planting pears on them for about 30 years that OHXF rootstocks are shorter lived than trees on seedlings. All the pears I’ve ever planted in the last 30 years are still thriving (that is the ones I know of) except maybe half a dozen killed by fireblight.
I expect they will be providing fruit for many decades after I’m gone. Even ones suffering from psyla are not quickly killed, they quickly stop cropping but can live for a very long time.
Do you have ones that psylla have taken out of production due to pear decline as discussed in the video or do you think thst is strictly a regional problem with ohxf rootstocks? We know they grow 2/3 of the pears in that region it is only fair i suppose they have 2/3 of all the problems. The pear trees that are 200 years old still produce frequently. Keep in mind the 200 year old pear tree may be the 1 out of the 100 pear trees still alive.
As an example the endicott pear discussed in this post was over 400 years old. Imagine something here before the United States was formed
In 1630 John Endecott planted that pear tree!
Maine is working on projects to locate ancient pears in that state. "A dedicated team of fruit explorers have been looking around the state for the oldest pear trees still alive in effort to preserve valuable genetic diversity of Pyrus before its lost forever. Pears are one of the longest lived of all fruit trees and are known to exceed 350 years old. " Old Pears Gain Ground in the Maine Heritage Orchard - Maine Organic Farmers and Gardeners
High density pear orchards sound good to many people but the truth is the modern way of growing pears is expensive and not guaranteed to return any profit at all. Here is a realistic article about what a pear grower is facing. Growing pains for pear growers - Good Fruit Grower
Every location is unique. Before you plant dwarfs consider my location in Kansas has had very scattered rain. I’m in a drought pocket where the ponds never filled and big rains never came this spring. We did not have any runoff. We had enough moisture to get the hay looking nice. Thankfully these standard trees are paying off for me again. We feel bad for the people living in western Kansas it has been a tough time for them. Southern Plains Drought Status Update | April 6, 2023 | Drought.gov. Those growing dwarfs need to have unlimited water to give them. It is something to consider. The deep rooted standard trees have a tendency to do much better in drought conditions than shallow rooted dwarfs. People have learned through experience about crops like kiwi that required water in oklahoma there was no water to give them. I learned here in Kansas about kiwi! Many of the kiwi orchards that did well there in Oklahoma for years died for lack of water. Those with water can raise kiwi. Here is what everyone should know about kiwi. The same is true about trellis orchards but it is less extreme on water needs. https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/kiwifruit-production-in-oklahoma.html
No freaking way. LOL. That photo, Id have to guess that is a nut type of tree, the wood from a nut bearing tree is certainly from my experience more dense & sturdy as compared to a fruit tree.
I’m not a huge heights guy and would never make it to the top of that ladder let alone where those crazy dudes are standing!
They can be or can be real soft wood depending on what the other wild ones cross with. We have both types here. Some feel like im sawing on a black locust almost.
