The original source of the cultivar was in Europe. It was documented there at least twice over the past two centuries with no mention of reverting.
I don’t take cuttings until they are ordered.
I usually don’t either Richard, until it gets too cold to leave them on the tree. But I would bet we have pretty different winters.
So I gather: “if they don’t sell out” means “if there is enough scionwood left on the trees after cutting sales are over”.
Basically. It means if there are not any parts left of the tree that I would like to prune for that season. To build the quantity/ inventory, I go through all my trees and measure where and how many cuts I would take of each. At some point, when the temperatures dictate it, and all trees are fully dormant ( and there are temperatures below the low 20s coming up) , I finish the pruning and put the trees away as well as cover and insulate the in ground trees
2 Likes
Marseilles Black (VS), and Genovese Nero (AF), Black Madeira (KK), those full names identify the persons who sourced them, which helps to insure that it’s the real variety. People like me would expect to see those author tags there, or I’d look elsewhere. Although if a seller has a better than normal description they could list the original source of the variety in the description. With all the ‘intentional or not intentional’ phony varieties out there. There is comfort in seeing those tags.
Black Madeira (KK), is believed to be the real ‘Black Madeira’, which was sourced from ‘Jon Verdick’, the former owner of the Figs 4 Fun Forum, as well as the owner of ‘the Encanto Farms Nursery’. KK bought the variety from ‘Jon Verdick’. Black Madeira (KK) became very popular, and very few people would buy any Black Madeira fig tree, unless it was tagged with the name ‘KK’. The fig community made it very popular because it appeared to have a way less serious problem with FMV, than other sources of Black Madeira. Although some people did wind up having serious FMV problems with it, just that the the odds seemed way less.
3 Likes
Are your figs in-ground? I’m just South of you near Easton so your results are instructive if you grow in-ground.
2 Likes
27 of them are in ground, the others are in pots. I haven’t experimented with too many later varieties in ground, as I get a bit more shade in some parts
3 Likes
I’m growing a Black Madeira from USDA Wolfskill and a Black Madeira KK. They’re seemingly the same fig. Both from grafts I put on and both slow growers. No fmv though but I feed consistent. According to what John said to Harvey. The one that Kieth obtained from him from Encanto Farms was originally grown by CRFG San Diego. You probably already know.
The one to get now that is supposed to be the fasted grower is Cravens Craving. Wondering if they(faster healthier) are being taking from healthier trees with different hormones or if scion wood taking in different places can produce different attributes to the trees health and vigor?
Also Figo Preto was found in 2008 has been recently tested to be a Black Madeira. Cravens Craving was also tested along with Black Madeira and they’re all the same fig conveniently renamed. But everyone already knew that that’s grown them side by side for years.
Now Violeta is a different story. Maybe they’re all Violeta figs don’t know.
The real question is if they are all literally the same thing or if some are sports or genetically distinct in some way. I have a persimmon sport I’m excited to trial but it is different just as Macintosh has many sports for an apple.
2 Likes
Good luck on the Persimmon! There’s a post by a guy camed Walows on another forum your also OF on titled below. Has a masters in science in biochemistry. From the testing he did concluded from sequencing that the FP, BMKK & CC are all from the same tree.
But as I mentioned above Wondering if the cuttings (faster healthier) are being taking from healthier trees with different hormones or if scion wood taking in different places can produce different attributes to the trees health and vigor? I’ve seen that first hand with plants but I don’t have the experience with trees. I know I’ve seen some people(but sellers so idk if it’s just bs) claim this of the same trees are said to produce better from cuttings in different areas taken or times collected.
“Comparing the genetics of Black Maderia KK, Figo Preto and Craven’s Craving”
I forget who said the following, it’s been a very long time, yet some Black Madeira trees that were tested for FMV, had way more strains of FMV infecting them than other Black Madeira trees have been found to have. I think that some just have had more exposure to different FMV strains than others.
Lets think about all the places in California that Black Madeira could have been grown, and how much FMV and FMV spreading mites there are in those areas.
Chances are there are those mites, and FMV in Portugal as well, where different Black Madeira strains grow and originate, and were plenty of different varieties that resemble Black Madeira grow.
There is also the possibility that dna mutations can happen to fig trees that create an immunity to one or more types of FMV.
I am sure that there could be other causes for different levels of FMV symptoms too. Like some of these Black Madeira trees under different names could have been smuggled in, and have originated from a cleaner tree than others.
1 Like