The original source of the cultivar was in Europe. It was documented there at least twice over the past two centuries with no mention of reverting.
I don’t take cuttings until they are ordered.
I usually don’t either Richard, until it gets too cold to leave them on the tree. But I would bet we have pretty different winters.
So I gather: “if they don’t sell out” means “if there is enough scionwood left on the trees after cutting sales are over”.
Basically. It means if there are not any parts left of the tree that I would like to prune for that season. To build the quantity/ inventory, I go through all my trees and measure where and how many cuts I would take of each. At some point, when the temperatures dictate it, and all trees are fully dormant ( and there are temperatures below the low 20s coming up) , I finish the pruning and put the trees away as well as cover and insulate the in ground trees
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Marseilles Black (VS), and Genovese Nero (AF), Black Madeira (KK), those full names identify the persons who sourced them, which helps to insure that it’s the real variety. People like me would expect to see those author tags there, or I’d look elsewhere. Although if a seller has a better than normal description they could list the original source of the variety in the description. With all the ‘intentional or not intentional’ phony varieties out there. There is comfort in seeing those tags.
Black Madeira (KK), is believed to be the real ‘Black Madeira’, which was sourced from ‘Jon Verdick’, the former owner of the Figs 4 Fun Forum, as well as the owner of ‘the Encanto Farms Nursery’. KK bought the variety from ‘Jon Verdick’. Black Madeira (KK) became very popular, and very few people would buy any Black Madeira fig tree, unless it was tagged with the name ‘KK’. The fig community made it very popular because it appeared to have a way less serious problem with FMV, than other sources of Black Madeira. Although some people did wind up having serious FMV problems with it, just that the the odds seemed way less.
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Are your figs in-ground? I’m just South of you near Easton so your results are instructive if you grow in-ground.
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27 of them are in ground, the others are in pots. I haven’t experimented with too many later varieties in ground, as I get a bit more shade in some parts
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I’m growing a Black Madeira from USDA Wolfskill and a Black Madeira KK. They’re seemingly the same fig. Both from grafts I put on and both slow growers. No fmv though but I feed consistent. According to what John said to Harvey. The one that Kieth obtained from him from Encanto Farms was originally grown by CRFG San Diego. You probably already know.
The one to get now that is supposed to be the fasted grower is Cravens Craving. Wondering if they(faster healthier) are being taking from healthier trees with different hormones or if scion wood taking in different places can produce different attributes to the trees health and vigor?
Also Figo Preto was found in 2008 has been recently tested to be a Black Madeira. Cravens Craving was also tested along with Black Madeira and they’re all the same fig conveniently renamed. But everyone already knew that that’s grown them side by side for years.
Now Violeta is a different story. Maybe they’re all Violeta figs don’t know.
The real question is if they are all literally the same thing or if some are sports or genetically distinct in some way. I have a persimmon sport I’m excited to trial but it is different just as Macintosh has many sports for an apple.
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Good luck on the Persimmon! There’s a post by a guy camed Walows on another forum your also OF on titled below. Has a masters in science in biochemistry. From the testing he did concluded from sequencing that the FP, BMKK & CC are all from the same tree.
But as I mentioned above Wondering if the cuttings (faster healthier) are being taking from healthier trees with different hormones or if scion wood taking in different places can produce different attributes to the trees health and vigor? I’ve seen that first hand with plants but I don’t have the experience with trees. I know I’ve seen some people(but sellers so idk if it’s just bs) claim this of the same trees are said to produce better from cuttings in different areas taken or times collected.
“Comparing the genetics of Black Maderia KK, Figo Preto and Craven’s Craving”
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I forget who said the following, it’s been a very long time, yet some Black Madeira trees that were tested for FMV, had way more strains of FMV infecting them than other Black Madeira trees have been found to have. I think that some just have had more exposure to different FMV strains than others.
Lets think about all the places in California that Black Madeira could have been grown, and how much FMV and FMV spreading mites there are in those areas.
Chances are there are those mites, and FMV in Portugal as well, where different Black Madeira strains grow and originate, and were plenty of different varieties that resemble Black Madeira grow.
There is also the possibility that dna mutations can happen to fig trees that create an immunity to one or more types of FMV.
I am sure that there could be other causes for different levels of FMV symptoms too. Like some of these Black Madeira trees under different names could have been smuggled in, and have originated from a cleaner tree than others.
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I am no scientist or expert but I believe it’s important to remember and document figs or other types of fruit when,where and who you have gotten them from. One of the things you mentioned to remove was the VS . Now I’m sure you know what the VS stands for but the thing is that Vasile is a fig expert and I believe that when it first started as Marseille Black VS is when he discovered a healthy variety of this variety he introduced it to the fig community as such so that everyone could grow the healthy tree one that wasn’t infected. You mentioned dropping the kk but he to found a variety that was healthy and you must know his Black Madeira kk is a healthy fig compared to the ucdavis version. The ucdavis version grows fine in a near perfect environment in California but doesn’t fair well in the north east of the country with very slow growth. I see nothing wrong with documenting and keeping them as you received them. I’ve been interrupted 3 times while typing this so I need to stop.
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At first Herman2 (Vasile Surugiu), he discovered a variety of fig named both MD1943BT and MD1943Celeste, a variety that originated from a WW2 veteran that brought them back with him from Europe in 1943, and planted the variety at his home in Maryland.
Herman, and some of his buddies did a well thought out investigation, they determined that this variety was ‘Marseilles’, and so at first it was just called ‘Marseilles’. ‘Jon Verdick’ of the former Figs4fun forum, named it ‘Marseilles VS’ to show who the source of the cuttings was. In time it was realized that there was a variety called Marseilles White as well, so then ‘Marseilles VS’ got called ‘Marseilles VS Black’, and in time people realized that the name ‘Marseilles Black VS’ is a way less confusing name, so the order of the name was changed. Some people like me prefer putting the name tag at the end of the name like (VS) Since the tag is not actually a part of the name. People wanted the VS in the name because they were not sure if there was any other real ‘Marseilles Blacks out there’, yet there was at least one ‘Marseilles Black’ named fig that was not sourced from ‘Vasile’.
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Interesting story Alan thanks. I had no clue about that fig or how it was named.
I wonder why the soldier came back in 1943? Sounds like a lucky guy.
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I agree Luke, I am a big fan of maintaining the name of the fig as you got it, and not changing names out to what you think it should be. As a buisness it would be very confusing to customers to have names or spellings that are significantly different than what other people are buying/selling/trading them as. It would be constant questions like " is this fig different than this other fig someone else is selling with a similar name"
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Not trying to say anything bad… but eye candy is of little use. I was expecting to sort by USDA hardiness zone, but nope 
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Most all figs hardiness zone typically is 8-11 but I’ve seen people growing them under zone 5 with special care. Figs like Hardy Chicago, Green Michurinska and Florea are known to do well in colder climates.
I’m sure you already know but many fig lovers do the fig shuffle in containers or bury them in the winter. If you’re under 8.
But actually wouldn’t be a bad ideal to add a cold tolerant fig list @KQuinlan with a disclaimer of course lol
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In your zone if left unprotected all figs will regularly die back. It’s simpler to get figs that are known to fruit well the year after they die back completely to the ground.
Bari, Makedonia dark, Lyndhurst white, and ciccio Nero are some particularly known for fruiting well after dying back in the winter
That info on florea surviving -13 was pulled by the ai from an ourfigs post, definitely not a confirmed instance and by no means something you should expect from that fig
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True I would definitely protect it. Any fig tree as you mention. I did see someone plant a small Florea tree that died back during the bad freezes with no protection and it shot up from the ground in spring and produced nice figs. Florea is also a tree that produces well after cold winter die back.
@TNHunter gets very impressive growth and crop off his established Hardy Chicago with his technique to cut and bury. Love that tree.
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