If there was no challenge in growing fruit, many of us would get bored with it and have nothing to write about here. On the other hand . . .
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And here as well. I lost as many apricots to late freezes (after warm spells) as I did to eutypa. I don’t even try to grow them any more.
These are different than farmer’s markets which tend to have enforced rules- at least the few I’ve been to. When my father was still alive, I’d always go to the Santa Monica farmer’s market as a kind of pilgrimage when I visited him in Topanga late in the harvest season- extremely well tended with lots of very proud fruit growers with small farms. Same thing in my Sister’s neighborhood way up north where we’d go to the Arcata farmer’s market- though the selection was not nearly as good up there. Been a while- used to visit my sister mostly because my Mother was nearby.
A couple years ago my nect crop failed also and my wife found some excellent CA nectarines at Cosco right here in NY. Must have been about 25 brix. On the box was the claim that the white spots on the skin was from high sugar inside.
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I agree with you about fruit stands. Even along the highways her in Ohio and also going from Ohio to SC, GA, FL and over to LA. I see the fruit stands where they are along the road with little home made signs. They list it as " Home Grown Fruit" and then you stop and see the back of the pickups or in the vans boxes of commercial produce. Some of the fruit was supposed to be local but there is probably no way the produce is either that early ripened or that late ripened and staying fresh ( I say probably because I cannot say for certain). I see peaches that are " Homegrown" in April or May along the roads.
Not matter when you go through GA there are trucks that say " Fresh Crop Pecans". Are there really pecan trees that have three and four crops of pecans year round? Probably not.
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I checked out my Rich May (AKA Flavorich, so I think that is what you mean by Flavor May) and it had about a dozen fruit on the graft. Last year I over-cropped it with ~25 fruit on the branch, so I may have gotten just the right amount of frost damage that I won’t need to think much to get higher quality fruit.
From this pic, you can see quite a few failed blossoms. It looks like about 20% of them actually set.
A not-so-good amount of thinning took place on my Golddust, where there was only 1 fruit left on the tree. It is on Citation, so it isn’t a huge tree, but 1 fruit is still disappointing.
I don’t have many nectarine trees, so I didn’t immediately notice the trend. But, the one large nectarine has almost no fruit (just some on one of the peach grafts on it). I do see a few nectarines from a graft on a peach tree, but even there aren’t many. Do the fuzzy coats give peaches an extra bit of insulation? 
I lost 2 more apricots in my yard (though I think they died over the winter, as I never saw any green), but none of the young ones at rentals were impacted. Part of this is that it generally takes 3-4 years before they die for me- right about when they get productive. But, the ones that died this year weren’t that large or healthy, so I just planted a jujube in their place and moved on. I still have a few apricot trees (and grafts) at home, but I’m not planting any more.
While I’ve (mostly) given up on apricots at my place, I’ve been planting them at the rentals (hoping to find a site where they do well) and they seem good so far. 3 of the 8 I planted last year were Early Blush just because they are so darned early (around June 20th the one time I harvested some). If I can ever get a consistent crop from apricots, there won’t be any need for early peaches.
I’m talking specifically about Early Blush, which bears fruit about 2 weeks before my next earliest cot. Alfred was planted against my wall 20 years ago and is my strongest most reliable tree- you should try planting or grafting Alfred. It has as good a fruit as any, just a bit small and a tendency towards scab, which can be controlled. Cummins told me long ago that it was the most reliable of all trees being looked at in Cornell’s breeding program.
Last year I got my cots without insecticide and I haven’t sprayed them with it yet this year. I’m waiting to see if they start getting damage- PC usually only attacks more immature fruit than what cots are by the time PC comes out in my neighborhood. Cherries only need a single spray, it seems.
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Depends on what the plant is doing at the time. If dormant, maybe they will make it. Bud break, all bets are off. Got down to 26 here in mid March. Burned back about everything that was budding or blooming. Got my blueberries and satsumas that were blooming. Killed back my mulberry. Pecans were still dormant, so not much affect.
I think a lot depends on the condition of the tree, the weather leading up to the frost, how it shut down the previous fall, how quickly it thaws out after going below 32, how long the frost lasted, etc. Freezing point depression is taught in chemistry classes - if you add salt or sugar to pure water it lowers the temperature at which the water will freeze. I would think that if the tree was able to build up sugars or other compounds before the freeze it would be somewhat protected.
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But how many of you suspected that trees can flower beautifully even though the blooms have been sterilized by cold that killed the ovaries? And without any clear evidence of that destruction. What’s more, that the destruction does not occur in a way the chart suggests- that a threshold from survival and total destruction of the ovaries can actually be a matter of probably not more than 2 degrees.
I am seeing much the same damage in sites generally warmer than mine.
I am also seeing that Methely may be by far the most successful J. plum this season of any, including Shiro. AND IT’S THE EARLIEST PLUM I GROW.
Last year my nectarines were thin but I got enough. This year I will have to thin. Looks like an excellent crop. I have read a lot of accounts of good white Nectarines. Many described as better than Arctic Jay. I never had those I have only had Arctic Jay and it was the best nectarine I ever had. The graft is loaded this year as it is almost a fully formed scaffold now. Full is sugar yet has a kick. And the fruit is so beautiful looking.
No losses here this year. Second year in a row.
I’m just glad I live here, out of nine years of stone fruit only one year of no fruit. Other years damage was small and not complete if any at all.
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Not sure what happen here but I had very little thinning to do on my peaches. They were heavy loaded last year so maybe they are taking a break. The bad part is one scaffold has few and other scaffolds have many empty shoots but other shoots loaded. Unbalanced. On that tree, I’m leaving the spacing a bit tighter.
Two years ago we had a late frost and of the 3 red havens, we only picked 200 peaches. Most were on one tree and just one side. They are all in a row east to west spaced 20 ft. The west tree is always a few days behind the other 2 trees.
We quit using pictures on temperature charts to predict fruit loss a few years ago.
Seems like the damage was often less than expected but sometimes worse.
Also quit cutting peach buds open after a freeze in order to predict damage…
Just a lot of anxiety over things beyond our control.
Looks like frost or freeze events kills most of the peaches about 1/5 years. Blueberries about 1/10.
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Mother Nature is cruel to us fruit growers at times.
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Loosing a crop is the worst part of this hobby. We may be heading into freezing temperatures so I’m a bit concerned. However, this article helps explain some of the caveats to freezing temperatures beyond just the temperature itself:
The one tip that stood out in the article was to irrigate ahead of time. The rational was that the extra moisture will help retain heat in the ground and release it over night when the temp drops.
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We had two mid-20 degree nights after full bloom this year, and a very similar situation last year. Last year apples were completely wiped out but peaches needed thinned. This year peaches are just about 100% wiped out but apples appear loaded. Also this year–> labrusca grapes had some damage, but should have an OK crop, asian pears maybe 40% crop, american hybrid plums like Toka and Kahinta 50% crop, some euro plums 25%, some wiped out, only the mirabelles are loaded. Carmine Jewel cherries 40% crop, sweet cherries just about 100% wiped out second year in a row. Gooseberries OK. Paw paw flowers seem to have at least 50% survivaI, but I can’t tell if any set fruit yet. I actually don’t like reporting yet because so many things can still go wrong. PC is starting to show up (the battle begins). I got the first spray done, but have had 3 nights of rain since. Other than being bummed out about the peaches, I’m happy everything else shows as much promise as it does. It’s so hard to see the rhyme and reason dealing with frost issues. Most theories I have don’t seem consistent one year to the next. I think two exceptions are that Surefire Tart Cherry and Reine des Mirabelle seem to consistently be late bloomers.
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Very good information. Things to consider.
Same conditions completely different results and when you look at the chart it makes it pretty clear that it is virtually worthless as a diagnostic tool- at least in and of itself. You are also, once again, confronted with the fact that when you are working with nature sometimes things happen that defy a known explanation.
None of the explanation of variations of susceptibility to freeze damage made by forum members here explains apples completely surviving a frost one year while peaches are completely wiped out and an absolute reversal the next. At least I cannot put an explanation together, maybe one of you can. Apples are always a bit later than peaches… always. They have similar frost resistance that declines as the flowers develop.
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I don’t agree with that. A loot of this stuff has been studied quite extensively down to the specific variety.
One factor that murdetiizes trees here is not absolute temperatures but the temperature fluctuations; any trees that lose hardiness at the first false warm up is a dead tree once it gets cold again. Then there are many varieties where the effect of frost on flower and flower buds has been painstakingly tracked to determine how much they can take. Heck on my micro climate I get 40+ mph winds in sub zero temperatures for long stretches at a time, looking out of my window I can imagine the croupier yelling “all bets are off!”
Here in Alaska and in the Canada prairies when you get a hold of a hardiness study, where actual trees were put on the ground and tracked for years, you beeline for the only section that matters, how they did when a test year came. Usually it is the year that was too dry, temperatures hit record lows, and there was 0 snow coverage on the ground. You get entire swats of tree varieties with 80%+ winter kill and others that didn’t even noticed. Those on the last group are considered hardy.
Heck I have two Franklin trees on the ground. They are hardy enough and the flowers are reported to survive frosts where just about all other trees in upstate New York lost their crops to a late freeze. It would still be pointless to me if they can’t mature apples fast enough for our short growing season, so even if it is the hardest tree on the planet that alone would make it an ornamental tree :-/ even then I would try to cross it with another early variety apple, there are not many options for early cider apples.
Can you supply any of these studies?
This thread hasn’t been about tree survival up until now, but crop survival in relative cold at relative points of flower bud maturity. That might be a bit trickier to study that simply winter lows that trees can survive, although the latter is tricky enough.
It is not trickier to study but the information is on a variety-by-variety basis with very specific parameters so not as useful for broad generalizations. For instance on a very specific variety on a very specific rootstock at a very specific point on the flower bud stage, and an specific humidity range, it could be seen that it suffer 10% flower drop at 28f, and upwards of 90% flower drop at 24f. Basically repeat the data gathering for each permutation under each variety.
Heck here is one study testing just one parameter, the effect of rootstock on flower bud hardiness of peaches. It was found that one rootstock had a significant impact on enhancing Hardiness and yield of redHaven peaches but the same rootstock did not have the same effect on other tested peaches.
https://journals.ashs.org › arti…PDF
"Rootstock Influence on Flower Bud Hardiness and Yield of 'Redhaven …