Fruit Breeding for the Home Garden

General Fruit Growing
#21

I’m in Alaska. Our season is ridiculously intense with 20-hour sunlight in the summer solstice, but it is equally ridiculously short with between 105 and 150 frost free days (90%/10% probability). The sad thing about hard cider apples is that they are usually late season apples. Most are harvested in October when our freeze times can start by mid September.

Last year I planted two Franklin Cider apple trees to test and see if they are hardy enough and can ripen fruit early enough. So far they went through the first winter without issues and are flowering. I should find out soon enough if they will work here.

2 Likes
#22

I have been growing out fruit trees from seeds and making crosses for about 7 years now and I still think it is the most wonderful thing to do. Making crosses and thinking about what the fruits could look and taste like is such a wonderful and imaginative activity that has never lost it’s initial attraction to me: the fact that you can create something entirely new, alive and uniquely flavored is so enticing!

All the things you study and learn along the way - like genetics and botany - are also just so incredibly interesting, that I can only recommend it to everyone. - As an activity or past-time that is thoroughly enjoyable and interesting. This kind of breeding gives plenty of good, nice enough and interesting results, even in a relatively small garden with small numbers to keep it interesting for a long time. Besides that it is very easy to do if you are willing to do it over a longer period of time and have the curiosity and the patience for it.

Other than that, I would say one should not have any major expectations of it in terms of value or return on investment. Just by doing it for a couple of years, you start to realize a couple of things that all other breeders have already said a hundred times but that somehow are hard to imagine when you start out. And those thing have everything to do with the value, or market value, or investment value, and not at all with all the interesting techniques, novelties and your creativity - if you would want to keep that in mind.

To my experience:

The market value of your new tree has nothing to do with your choice of parents or your cross or the flavor or the appearance of the fruit. Nor with how many seedlings you grew out over how many years and that you selected the best of the best. The only thing that counts is over how many years and against how many other cultivars you have evaluated your new tree in a solid scientific reliable context and how it compares to these other known varieties in yield, disease resistance, climatic conditions and under pest pressure. It is the gathering of this information what will determine for 99% the market value of your new tree, no matter if it is for the home garden or the production market.

This means you, or anyone else will need to set up a program where it compares your best tree or plant over several years against all the market standards. That is the investment that anyone who will bring the tree to market wants to recuperate.

Otherwise, as often stated in this forum by the professional growers, there are plenty of people who swear that the tree in their yard never gets peach leaf curl, or is the sweetest, biggest, most wonderful fruit, and that may be true under their conditions.

But the limiting factor and most costly investment is not the number of plants, terrain or generations of breeding - it is in the quality and reliability of the evaluation of your new proposed plant.

So I see this backyard breeding more the way I see fine art or music - something really interesting and enriching to practice for yourself, but there are many, many easier ways to make a living. As an investment or a plan to make a little money on the side it is has almost no potential at all, in my view, unless you are in the nursery business yourself already, or you want to make this your full time job.

That said, it is very possible, even very likely, that you will find a very good fruit after a while. That fruit can be distributed and gain a certain reputation locally and even become a standard or legendary variety. That is probable and even likely in my opinion. So the door is open to contributing a ne and novel fruit variety for posterity - no problem. It is just not easy to do that and make money from it at the same time.

7 Likes
#23

I have Otterson at ‘3rd leaf’ but it’s on Antonovka, so probably 3 more to bear.

That seemed to be the top of the crop from Michigan experimentation.

#24

Been growing out apples from seed. My interest in that lead me to skillcult’s youtube channel and his store. Other than that, I grew out a bunch of rosemary from seed this year. My unscientific and completely unresearched goal is a cultivar that survives zone 5 and is tasty.

1 Like
#25

I disagree what was said about MSU. They have numerous cherry and blueberry cultivars sold in the home market. They also provide paid and free assistance to the home grower. It’s who I go to when I need answers.
Usually universities develop for the commercial market. But if one shows promise only for the home market they will develop it. Numerous examples exist such as the Ka-bluey blueberry. Too soft for the commercial market Is what I heard. Exclusive rights were sold to Gardens Alive which sells it at its subsidiary nurseries like Gurneys. I found the texture fairly firm, it’s not soft. The flavor is premium excellence. One of the best I have tasted.
I breed mostly brambles but have not had that much time Lynn’s Black is my best. A large primocane fruiting black raspberry my goal was to produce a better tasting primocane berry. It is better but still not as good as floricane berries. It has the added benefit of huge berries and very good disease resistance. My next goal is to produce a primocane fruiting yellow cap. I developed Irene a pink raspberry. I’m trying for orange. Some exist in Europe but not sold here. Valentine is one of those. Not the ground raspberry with the same name.
I also wast to cross Indian free peach with Arctic Glo nectarine to create an earlier ripening red flesh peach. I had three of them but the seedlings died in an early fall freeze. As did a number of plants in my area. Once developed I would like to cross with the nectaplum to get a large red fleshed nectarine with purple leaves. I’d do have a cross of Indian free and the nectaplum and it does have purple leaves.

3 Likes
#26

I do some crosses with ornamental plants (lilium). I have an interest in making tart/sweet cherry crosses and now have some of the parents that would allow me to make the crosses. Unfortunately, dwarfing rootstock is hard to get for cherries which makes the process harder than it needs to be. I have some interest in apples as well.

Quite a few University breeding programs have released apples that have little value for large scale commercial plantings but have value for backyard orchards and PYO orchards. Honeycrisp fit in this category initially since it is hard to grow, ship and store. That changed when growers saw strong market demand for Honeycrisp. Another example is Pixie Crunch which is too small to be viable for large scale orchards.

I agree with Solko you need to have a plan to test what you breed in different climates and against different cultivars. It’s unlikely as a home breeder you will be able to do this thru the university sponsored programs or the programs that a commercial breeder has in place. You may be able to distribute scionwood to people spread over United States that could do informal evaluations. But I don’t think this is going to be a route to being a top 50 commercially planted apple.

From the technical side the parents make a big difference. Larger numbers of seedlings helps a lot. Having good goals helps too. I think breeding an improved Honeycrisp or an improved red flesh apple is probably a waste of time. Large scale commercial breeders are working on this and they plant thousands of seedlings. For small scale breeders I would try to focus on goals that the large breeders ignore. A better apple for the South, improved russets, apples that actually have resistance to insects, these are better goals for a backyard breeder for apples.

For more obscure plants, I think you have less competition. A professional plant breeder was talking and said for lilium there are about a dozen serious, committed breeders that’s it. I would guess there are a hundred that do crosses on a regular basis like me but that still is a very small number. So if you want more chances of making an impact you might breed Cornelian Cherries or Serviceberries or Duke cherries (tart/sweet hybrids). Little work is being done on them and the chances of your creation being offered by a nursery is much higher.

As far as heirlooms I think demand for them has increased for a couple of reasons. One is with the internet you can find more information about them and find nurseries that supply them easier than you could in the pre-internet age. Second, in the quest for cheap mass production and requirements for toughness in shipping, and long storage, the importance of flavor and texture was lost in shuffle. The heirlooms didn’t need to met these requirements but they had to taste good which is why people still plant them.

1 Like
#27

So that I’m clear - I have zero interest in breeding to create the Next Honeycrisp™. :slight_smile:

I’d be more interested in just keeping track of who’s working with what. And might be willing to swap varieties as they come up with interesting things.

I tend to go with heirlooms, oddballs, or varieties that are both.

I’m not quite into “chaos gardening” - where you just basically let things do what they will and whatever succeeds is what you have. But I’d like to eventually select things down to a useful population of fruits that do well in my microclimate and that I have a use and taste for. (For instance, I’m not super into sweet cherries. I far prefer the sours. Although the crosses might be interesting).

I’m also a geneticist by training, and into history as an inclination. I love the story behind the variety sometimes as much as the variety itself. Which might be part of why I’m often intrigued by varieties presented by Baker Creek - there are a fair few that were the simple result of one person or group of people consistently selecting for decades until what they had was just unique. The Tommy Apple Melon leaps to mind.

I do think it might be helpful for NoObs to hear about how others go about making their crosses, growing them out, and testing the progeny.

2 Likes
#28

I haven’t found the extension service terribly helpful. Possibly because I live in the fruit belt and the agents working over here are far more used to dealing with the commercial folks. And, as I say, it makes me a little sad because I’m a graduate of the College of Ag and Nat Resources. I used to work for the Dean’s office as a student ambassador. I even got one of the Ag Econ profs to sit for an interview (regarding the hard cider market) for my podcast last week. Although in return for this, I have been roped into speaking to his class in the Fall. Of late, the entire ag program has gotten de-prioritzed. Likely because of the push to try to rival UofM in the human medical sector. But that’s another topic.

I have followed along with some of your adventures. Since we’re in similar conditions, I find a lot of your posts particularly helpful. And your breeding or propagating projects of particular interest.

1 Like
#29

I’m also a graduate of the college of human medicine. A med tech. Now moved to natural sciences as I understand it. I worked for the anatomy department for awhile and Sparrow hospital. I lived in the area 11 years.
I have been gardening or growing plants my whole life

#30

at least your able to convince them. in Maine whats wriiten is not subject to change. Ribes nigrum of any cultivar is banned statewide, period! resistant or not. in my northern county were allowed all gooseberries and red/white currants. in the south counties, no Ribes are legal.

#31

Yes, though the convincing requires peer-reviewed studies. Which can be aggravating. For example, I’ve found various vendors who state that Black Velvet is WPBR resistant, but I’ve never seen anything to back that. Corvalis has data on a few types that are considered resistant, and the MDA is even behind that a bit.

And now I’m wondering if I could buy some resistant varieties and try to breed my own… :wink:

I struggle with rubus, too. For one, the SWD get them. Or, if I make it past that, about 3 years in the tips of all the canes die back. I have to move them to a different site and plant something else there for a while. I have no idea what does it, but my mother runs into the same issue.

2 Likes
#32

Can you cheat and grow Jostaberries? Fully matured it is very close to black currant in flavor and certainly in looks. Enough to freak out any ne’er-do-well from the extension that happens to see your bushes from a distance.

#33

so far, and from what ive seen/ read over the years any b. currant from the same Canadian breeding program consort came from are still W.P.B.R immune. ive had consort here for 6 yrs and never had any issues. had some golden currant from cuttings that got it real bad the 2nd year so i destroyed them. for breeding id start with consort. i think your bushes decline is because of your zone. any Ribes grow best in the coldest zones. mine get so big and thick, i have to prune out half the canes every 2-3 yrs or berry size suffers. they will get 6ft. wide if you let them here. mine fruit early enough i dont think swd would affect them . usually done by mid july.

2 Likes
#34

The ban on ribes to to protect white pine tree stands in the area.

I can’t imagine it’s terribly effective, since my property is rather full of wild ribes, but shrug. One county to my East, there is no ban, and there is a U-pick farm. Her stuff always looks great. So I’d imagine they’d do OK here, if only I were “allowed.”

1 Like
#35

the ban here goes back nearly 100 yrs. hell even N.Y allows them to be grow commercially now . like you said, wild Ribes are everywhere so w.t.h! Maine has some of the strictest plant regulations in the country and theres no reason for it. W.P.B.R is here to stay and will continue to spread, regardless if people cultivate Ribes or not. it grows so well here and is so easy to propagate, it would quickly become one of the most commercially viable crops in this state. i would buy land and plant black currant the same year they made it legal to do so. its by far one of the most productive / nutritious bush fruit out there hands down.