Good, old, New England apples (or apples for New England)?

[JinMA]

Hey Ryan,

Cool to hear that you are thinking about an espalier project. Personally I think it’s a great way to go for a backyard (or frontyard) orchard.

If you haven’t checked out @HollyGates excellent threads on his espaliers, I’d definitely encourage you to do so. Like you, he has an engineer’s mind and approach to things, and his project is much better thought out than mine. (I would probably be the first little pig in the story, but the wolf hasn’t come to blow everything down yet, so…)

Personally, I’ve been really happy with the espalier approach. We have a fairly small yard that’s partly shaded by our house and large city street trees, so making the most of space and sun is a big thing, and I also feel like espalier makes the trees easier to take care of overall. I especially like the Belgian fence setup, because the individual trees are much easier to manage than a multi-tier espalier would be, but the cumulative effect is still equally striking. (And we get a lot of positive comments on the more visible fence in our front yard.)

In terms of updates, it looks like my oldest trees are now heading into their fifth year since bench grafting. We have not yet gotten fruit, though a couple of trees did have a few blossoms last year (Blue Pearmain, Hunt Russet, Wheeler’s Golden Russet, and Reine des Reinettes are the ones I remember). Reine des Reinettes started to form fruit but they didn’t mature. More of the trees do seem to be starting to form spurs, though, so I’m optimistic that we’ll start to get there soon - should know more in a couple of months.

I’ve also had better results on grafting since the first year (where I shot myself in the foot by storing my bench grafts in pots that drained poorly). Grafting in-ground rootstock works better for me, I think.

Here’s my current variety list with a few notes (again, no fruit yet). In keeping with the theme of the thread, I’ve noted the ones with MA/New England connections):

Adams Pearmain: On the less vigorous side but pretty well behaved.
American Beauty (MA): Has grown pretty nicely.
Ashmead’s Kernel: Declined after being transplanted out of the nursery and eventually died. Attempting a new graft this year.
Black Oxford x2 (ME): One of the stronger growers. Pretty striking tree: kind of like the fruit, the bark has a really dark purplish color. Have had a little trouble training it as a Belgian fence because it really wants to form a central leader.
Belle de Boskoop: Grafted last year, seems vigorous.
Blenheim Orange: Grafted last year, seems very vigorous.
Blue Pearmain (NE): I really didn’t think this one was going to make it the first year, but it recovered from its early struggles and is now a pretty strong-growing tree. Distinctive bark color, similar to Black Oxford but not quite as dark.
Bramley’s Seedling: Grafted last year, runaway freight train. Both Blenheim and Bramley are supposed to tend pretty strongly toward tip-bearing, so the plan is to grow them as freestanding trees and graft other, less vigorous tip bearers onto them.
Claygate Pearmain: Finally succeeded in grafting this one last year. Time to transplant it into the lineup.
Cornish Aromatic: Grew well initially but had a roughish year recovering from transplantation (I’ve ended up moving things around more than was good for them - one of those lessons learned)
Court Pendu Plat: Grafted a couple years ago. Not terribly vigorous. (This is one that I suspect I may rethink down the road, but I was in a “why not?” mood at the time.)
Edward VII: Grafted a couple years ago, and seems to grow pretty nicely. Pollination partner with CPP (both are supposed to bloom very late).
Fall Russet: Seems to grow pretty well but tends to get some kind of leaf spot towards the end of the season. (Not scab, I’m pretty sure - I think it’s Glomerella?)
Gray Pearmain (ME): Grows well, nice sturdy tree so far.
Hoople’s Antique Gold: Decent grower, generally healthy, but seems to be subject to the same late season leaf issues as Fall Russet. I know you were looking for this one - I believe I got the scion from Singing Tree, and there are other places that have it.
Hubbardston Nonesuch (MA): Botched the graft on this one a couple years ago and it’s struggled as a result. If it doesn’t come on stronger this year I will probably try to regraft it.
Hunt Russet (MA): One of my stronger growing trees.
Kerry Pippin: Grafted last year.
Kidd’s Orange Red: Grows well, healthy, seems to take well to espalier.
Mother (MA): In the middle with vigor, but healthy.
Old Nonpareil: In the middle with vigor, but very healthy.
Orleans Reinette: Another moderately vigorous but healthy tree. This is one that seems to respond to heavier heading cuts by bushing out into a lot of twiggy growth. One reason I have come to prefer notching as a much more reliable way to stimulate secondary branching. I’ve had an Orleans Reinette that was one of the best apples I’ve ever eaten. So good that I’m planning to graft another tree this year.
Pitmaston Pineapple: Very good grower, espaliers well.
Pomme Gris: Grafted a couple of years ago, transplanted last year, seems to be doing ok.
Pumpkin Russet (NE): This one has really struggled for me, partly because it got moved a couple of years in a row. Taking a wait and see approach on this one.
Reine des Reinettes: Another moderately vigorous but generally quite healthy tree.
Roxbury Russet x2 (MA): Kind of a tale of two trees here. One barely made it out of the first year, and while it’s survived, it’s been outstripped by the tree I grafted a couple years later, which has been a good solid grower. Out of the antique apples that we’ve tried, this was probably my wife’s favorite, and one of mine as well, right up there with Orleans Reinette.
Westfield Seek No Further x2 (MA): Local hero from Western Mass. Seems to grow well.
Wheeler’s Golden Russet (MA): Probably my rarest variety. According to Burford, apparently a sport of Golden Russet from nearby us here in Western Mass. Strong growing, very healthy. Had a couple of flowers last year if I remember correctly.

This year I’m planning to graft:

Ashmead’s Kernel (replacing the tree that died)
Orleans Reinette (adding another tree from my own scion)
St. Edmund’s Pippin
Windham Russet (NE)

Also growing some pears, but they’re not as far along. Current varieties:

Beurre Superfin
Comtesse Clara Frijs
Dana Hovey (MA)
Harvest Queen
Harrow Sweet
Honeysweet
Korean Giant
Magness
Tyson
Des Urbanistes
Winter Nelis

But a bunch of the pears got mauled by rabbits (snow was high enough to expose unprotected scaffolds - another lesson learned), so we’ll see what shakes out there.

This year I’m planning to graft:

Beurre Clairgeau
Cabot of Vermont (VT)
Louise Bonne de Jersey

Kind of second-guessing myself already on BC and LBdJ, but we’ll see how it turns out.

In general, I have had much more trouble with pears than I have with apples, partly due to pear psylla and partly due to the challenges involved in getting OHxF rootstock to establish itself. (In my experience, it does NOT like being transplanted.)

And we have one peach tree, Madison.

[MikeC]

Great selections. I hope these all take and you get some wonderful apples from them.

[disc4tw]

Thank you for the update Jamie! I have seen @HollyGates project as well, it is also very impressive. Keep those pictures coming once things progress! I think that having updated lists of which trees do well for espalier (and disease resistance) for certain areas is very important.

[JinMA]

Did a little thinning of the apple trees today. First time that I’ve had apples to thin, so that’s exciting. Here are a couple early observations:

Adams Pearmain was the first tree to bloom this spring, and by a good margin. Pretty pink buds and pink-veined blossoms. Set a bit of fruit which I thinned pretty heavily given that it’s still growing into its space and it’s not the strongest growing tree.

Mother had the heaviest bloom and fruit set, which surprised me a bit, as I expected it to take longer. Also attractive buds and blossoms.

Reine des Reinettes also had a good amount of blooms and blossoms. It had blossomed very lightly last year without setting fruit, but fruit is developing this year.

Hunt Russet had also blossomed lightly last year without setting fruit. Not a lot of blossoms this year, either, but a fruit or two does seem to be on its way.

Two that had blossoms and now fruit for the first time are Orleans Reinette and Pitmaston Pineapple. Neither had blossomed previously. Black Oxford, Gray Pearmain, and Hoople’s Antique Gold also had at least a smattering of blossoms.

As the trees are starting to have blossoms for the first time, I’ve noticed that some trees (like Adams Pearmain, Mother, and the two Reinettes) seem to have most of their blossoms lower down in the tree, while others (Black Oxford, Hunt Russet, Hoople’s Antique Gold) seem to have them more up toward the top. The lower-blossoming trees also seem to be blossoming more readily than the higher-blossoming ones. I’m not sure what that portends if anything but it’s something I’ve observed.

[Lodidian]

This discussion got me thinking about the trees in our orchard. About 20% of our orchard apple trees have New England origins.

Northfield Beauty, Vt
always abundant, very good (in its season)
Magog Readstreak, Vt
never has produced the giant-sized fruit we were expecting. Better as a cooker.
Garden Royal, Mass.
great things in a small package
Striped Harvey, Me.
its striking appearance is its best attribute
Porter, Mass.
that it was included by name in the original Fanny Farmer cookbook should have warned us it is not so great as a fresh eating apple, but it is a great cooker
Mother, Mass.
one of our all-around favorites, but is a bit variable in flavor some years
Red Canada, Conn. or Mass.
the only apple in Beach’s Apples of NY to get a “good to best” rating (as opposed to vg-best). We must have the right growing conditions for flavor, because the apples are quite enjoyable.
Hubbardston Nonesuch, Mass.
Scott and others list this as a later ripening variety, but it is ready much sooner here, similar in season to what Scott Farm reports for southern Vermont. Glad we don’t have to wait. Another favorite.
Dyer, RI
the tree took a long time to first bear fruit, but it is now in my top five favorite apples
Pound Sweet, Conn.
got scionwood from a friend. Better than its original primary usage — food for pigs — would suggest. How’s that for faint praise?
Tolman Sweet, probably Conn. or Mass.
only started to come into bearing, so have to withhold judgment
Peck’s Pleasant, RI
after a few years of failed grafting attempts, this year two are showing signs of success.
American Beauty, Mass.
first tree died before fruiting. Successful graft this spring, so no opinion yet.
Starkey, Me.
quite flavorful, even without allowing a few weeks to mellow
Briggs Auburn, Me.
this was the first year the tree was not full of blossoms. OK flavor, but we use most of the apples in cider
Westfield Seek-no-further, Mass.
I’m reading no love for Westfield. Both my wife and I like its distinctive flavor and don’t taste any astringency. A friend, however, top-worked her Westfield after renaming it Eat-no-further. It took our first tree on Antonovka 9 years to first bear, and it has been a shy bearer. However, a second tree on B9 was quite precocious, and this year it is very full.
Black Gilliflower, Conn.
successfully grafted last year
Blue Pearmain, unknown New England
our first one was mislabeled and turned out to be some crab. Successfully grafted scionwood a few years ago but still waiting for our first fruit. Based on samplings of friends’ Blue Pearmain, I have high praise for the apple. Good appearance, satisfying flavor, and a full apple eating experience
Baldwin, Mass.
expected it to be fully biennial, but hasn’t been. In its first couple years of bearing, the fruit did not have a good flavor, but we might have picked too early. Now that we pick later and the tree has matured, flavor has improved, but it has never been better than good.

[JinMA]

It’s been a little while, but I thought I’d post some updates on our apples as they’re beginning to bear fruit.

Possibly/probably misidentified

Hope it’s not actually Hoople’s Antique Gold

The tree flowers and fruits pretty prolifically, which seems right for a Golden Delicious sport, but the apples are small and green with a smooth, waxy skin, no russet. The flesh is firm, not crunchy, and on the drier side, and many of the apples are watercored. Some of the apples have hints of interesting, vaguely GD-like flavor, but on the whole they have not been very good. I’m probably going to give it another year before regrafting, but it’s on probation.

Probably not Pitmaston Pineapple

The tree grows well and produces nice-looking apples, but the fruit is (a) quite large and (b) almost entirely unrusseted, both of which seem wrong for PP. It also seems to be late ripening, and I’ve only had samples that were too green to evaluate properly. Still have a few hanging and will update when I try them.

Probably not Orleans Reinette

I don’t know what this tree actually is, but I’m pretty sure it’s not OR. Two years ago we got some pretty, nice-tasting apples from the tree. In appearance, they were fairly large, similar in shape to Gala, with a pink blush. In taste, they were crisp, pleasantly sweet, and rather mild, which my wife liked. Not bad but not exciting. This year they’ve been smaller and a bit washed out, possibly due to the wet weather we’ve been having. Whatever it is, it’s another one that’s on probation.

Reine des Reinettes?

Honestly not sure about the ID on this one. The apples look sort of like some pictures of RdR but considerably less like others. Fairly large, roundish/conical, in many cases prominently ribbed, with a red blush over green to light yellow. Little russet. The flesh is quite hard, firm, and white. Out of hand, they’re pretty interesting, with a rich flavor and a distinct smack of astringency (which I kind of like). Knowing that @mrsg47 has recommended RdR as a baking apple, I figured I would take a few of these for a test drive in an apple crisp, and whatever they actually are, we were very happy with the outcome. It’s possible that I’ve been picking them a little early - I’m still trying to get a feel for that with a lot of things. I’ve got a few that are still hanging and will see how they turn out. Whether or not it’s RdR, I think it’s going to be a keeper for baking if nothing else.

Apples I’ve been happy with

Adams Pearmain

I’ve found this to be a really nice apple. It’s relatively small, yellow flushed red, about 50-75% russet, and tends to the conical/ovate in shape. Really rich sweet-tart flavor. I’ve read descriptions of AP and other russets that talk about a pear-like or nutty flavor, but that hasn’t been my experience so much. Instead, I’ve experienced more of a citrus thing - with AP, it’s like a really intense orange. Several of our other apples have something along the same lines, running from tarter orange to tangerine to more lemony: Hunt Russet, Gray Pearmain, Black Oxford, Wheeler’s Golden Russet, more or less in that order. But while I enjoy the whole range, AP is probably the most appealing and best-balanced.

Black Oxford

We didn’t get any fruit this year, but I’ve had a chance to try a couple in the past. Very pretty, distinctive fruit. Similar in flavor to Adams Pearmain and Hunt Russet, but maybe more tangerine than orange (in other words, a little tarter), and perhaps a little drier. Have not had enough to store but interested to see how they do in that regard.

Gray Pearmain

Starting to like this apple quite a lot. They’ve been flattish, fairly large, mostly green to yellow with about 50-75% russet. Fairly hard, quite crisp, but more of a “breaking” than “crunching” crisp, if that makes sense. Picked on the early side, they’re pretty intense, with a lot of lemony tartness but also a good amount of sugar. When more fully ripe, they mellow a bit and the really nice ones develop a kind of buttery thing in the background, kind of like lemon cake. It will be interesting to see how they do in storage. I’ve tried one that had been in the fridge for a bit and it had mellowed and sweetened quite noticeably.

Kidd’s Orange Red

I had some questions about ID on this one, but thanks to some helpful photos from @mamuang, I’m pretty confident now that we do in fact have KOR. It’s a very nice apple, and probably the one that’s been most broadly popular in our family. Crisp, sweet, fairly juicy, just a bit tart, and all coming together harmoniously. Our daughter’s favorite out of the apples we grow so far.

Mother

An interesting, unusual, and highly variable apple. Looks kind of like KOR, though it tends to be a littler more long where KOR tends to be a little more flat (ovate vs. oblate), and the texture is less crunchy/a little more delicate. Most of the time they’re just pleasant and rather mild, but when everything comes together they’re really delightful, with a smooth sweetness that reminds me of cream soda and an unusual feeling of coolness in the mouth. They seem to have a relatively narrow peak in terms of optimal ripening and storage.

Hunt Russet

I like these. They’re a good sized, nice looking russet. Pretty hard, perhaps a little on the drier side, but with a nice breaking snap and a rich taste that reminds me of a rather tart orange. Similar to Adams Pearmain in many respects, but tend to be bigger and not quite as highly flavored (though still very good).

Wheeler’s Golden Russet

Our first year getting fruit from this tree, and I’ve only tried a couple. Generally similar to Gray Pearmain, but not quite as complex in flavor. Still very enjoyable, though, and the tree grows well. Will be interested to see how they do in storage. (This is not Wheeler’s Russet of the UK, but rather a local sport of Golden Russet.)

Have had fruits from a couple of other trees, but not enough to form an opinion.

[alan]

@JinMA

Hope it’s not actually Hoople’s Antique Gold

I’m confident it is not if mine is. Mine is fully russeted.

I will give a report on my favorite apples after harvest when everything’s fresh in my mind. However, I like modern apples at least as much as heirlooms as a general rule and by about mid-winter I like Pink Lady and Goldrush a lot. It seems seasons too short for Goldrush are getting rarer here and I’m growing the Barnsby’s strain of PL which ripens at the perfect time here… so far. It’s about 3 weeks earlier than the original, at least 2.

Currently and for a few years now my favorite heirlooms based on taste are Spitz and K.David. More New England growers should grow King David as the season is plenty long enough to ripen it to perfection.

[mamuang]

Any pics of the ones in questions? Many people here may be able to help you identify them.

Hoople’s is totally russeted even mine graft is in shade ( most of my apples are).

I am quite sure my Pitmaston is true to label. It is beautiful deep yellow color. It is a small apple.

@scottfsmith , @HighandDry and @jerry grow a lot of apples. Although they don’t live in New England, they probably can tell you if you have the correct apples.

[JinMA]

Good point about pictures for ID. I’ve been having trouble transferring pics from my phone to my computer for whatever reason, but when I get that sorted out I’ll try to post a few.

Thank you to you and Alan for confirming my suspicions about Not the Hoople. That one may be up for regrafting sooner rather than later.

[Lodidian]

Regarding Reine des Reinettes, in response to a post I made in 2020 on a King of the Pippins thread, in which I pointed out similarities and differences between the apples on a KotP tree and a RdR tree, Scott made a good point.

@scottfsmith

There is a pretty good chance they are different sports… on any variety that old and that common there are bound to be lots of sports.

So your RdR tree could be a RdR.

[MikeC]

I was going to mention the same thing. It could be a King of Pippins ( mango , orange, and lightest red) - ripens early September instead of a Reine des Reinettes ( salmon colored with orange and carmine skin color- like milk paint red)- ripens October.
King of Pippins

Reine des Reinettes

[JinMA]

Thanks for posting the pictures and descriptions, Mike - very helpful! One thing I’m noticing is the shape. The apples in your pictures look pretty rounded, which is what I’ve seen elsewhere for RdR. Ours tend tend to be ribbed and irregular, heading in the direction of something like Calville or one of those lumpy heirloom tomatoes.

PS: Think Gray Pearmain might be an apple you’d enjoy.

[HighandDry]

Calville Blanc is pretty easy to ID. Post a pic.

[mamuang]

Here are my Hoople’s. Totally russeted even in shade.

[JinMA]

Gorgeous!

Here is my?RdeR? (I’m tilting toward doubtful on that.)

Looked like a bird took a peck on this side. White flesh with a touch of green under the skin.

A bit of the ribbing is visible from this angle. Other specimens had more pronounced ribbing, and more overall lumpiness.

The lighting isn’t great, but this angle gives a somewhat better view of the color: kind of a mottled red over yellow/green. None of our apples got good color this year, which I’m putting down to the rainy weather. Lenticels are quite visible, more so in person.

In spite of the damage, this one was a really nice eating apple, one of the best apples we’ve grown so far. The taste makes me think that it might be something in the Mac family - maybe a Macoun?

[HighandDry]

Macoun has that lumpy shape, but the red color generally shades much closer to purple in my orchard and from photos I see online. It appears to be an eastern apple that remains true to its home color scheme out here in the dry western heat and altitude.

[JinMA]

Good point about the color. From what I’ve seen with locally grown Macouns, there can be a fairly wide variation. (Which may bring us back to the discussion of different sports?)

This picture from the New England Apples site is similar to a lot of the ones I see:

Macoun - New England Apples

As you can see, the color is fairly similar to the apple from our tree, though there’s more streaking and less of a mottled effect.

From what I understand, the shortish stem, crisp white flesh with green under the skin, and ribbing and lumpiness would all be right for Macoun. And like I said, the flavor seems to suggest something in the Mac family.

[HighandDry]

Did your fruit come off the tree shiny like that or was there a blush that was easily rubbed off? Macoun here always has a matte blush while on the tree. I’m not sure if this is a universal characteristic.

[JinMA]

Good question. The apples from that tree - whatever they are - have been almost completely covered with sooty blotch. I buffed most of it off, partly for ID purposes and partly to make it a little more appetizing, but you can still see some around the stem. The buffing may account for the shine and lack of blush (if it was there in the first place).

[mamuang]

I have a serious sooty blotch issue on pears and apples this year despite 4 sprays of fungicide. It can’t keep up with the rain and moisture we have had for months.