I’m not sure what exactly the deck restrictions are, but looking at the picture it seems like by far the easiest thing would be to build a deck level with the patio where the dirt pile is, and leave about a 4 ft space under it and put IBC totes. And then screen them with something.
As someone mentioned above, you should be able to get IBC totes off of Facebook or whatever for reasonable prices. Standard ones hold 275 gallons, the bigger ones hold 330 gallons. Around here you can get food grade 275 gallon IBC totes for about $70. Right around $0.25 a gallon. Less if you’re willing to wash out a non-food grade one that had maybe soap in it.
Within the scheme of a square footprint like a deck, IBC totes are every bit as efficient (if not moreso) as round tanks and barrels, because IBC totes are square, compared to a round tank/barrel which does not use the ‘corners’ of the space it occupies. IBC totes also have the advantage of being pre-plumbed with valves, versus barrels.
Just make sure the totes are resting on a good solid surface that doesn’t pool water (pavers or concrete probably). The cages can and will rust out over time if left in standing water.
If you are thinking of burying the plastic drums because of lack of space (under the deck), have you looked into water storage bladders (pillow tanks). They come in many sizes with the main characteristic being that they aren’t as tall as rain barrels.
Basically I have to make a “Floating Deck”, not physically attached to the ground or the house in any way, just resting on the surface. I intend to dig ~2.5’ down where all of my posts should be and instead fill with concrete and just put Camo Blocks on top of that. So I might be able to just leave the middle exposed where the IBC tote should go.
What a weird restriction. Or, by doing that do you avoid permitting an inspection? But yeah that sounds like it should be easy enough to work around. No need to do any backfilling at all, just screen the open sides with whatever material you prefer, to hide the ugly IBC cages. No worries about ground pressure against buried containers, easy to swap out containers and work on plumbing if there are problems.
If you avoid permitting and inspection by not having it attached to anything, you could just put some pavers at 4 ft below your upper patio level, and put the totes on top of that. IBC cages are built to hold an entire other filled IBC tote on top. Each cage has a carrying capacity of one ton, essentially. If you can get away with it, you could just have your entire deck rest on IBC totes.
I’m a huge fan of IBC totes, I use them to collect rainwater off my outbuilding. I’ve gone through almost 3,000 gallons of collected rainwater this year, as dry as it’s been.
This. There is a local variance which prohibited me from construction of a “deck” within 30’ of a road, and I believe 20’ from a neighbors property. I am on 1/8th of an acre that is only 50’ wide, so naturally it would be impossible to build the “deck”. But, the township zoning guy said there are no restrictions on a “patio”, provided I stay under 4’ for my retaining wall height for (I believe) federal regulations which would require a permit above 4’.
I am pulling pavers to replace with flagstone, so I was kind of planning on doing this anyway! It might be challenging to get the elevations just right so we’ll see how that goes.
My support “blocks” on the corners and the center of the deck will be rated at 1,800 lb, so just about the same.
I don’t want to do the engineering on that lol. It would be possible, however I also don’t forsee that amount of water being needed, sans an EOTWAWKI event. Having them hidden would be pretty great in that instance, but I’m not expecting to have that.
Generally we get a lot of water here, so this is more for keeping the blueberries happy and trying to do my part for stormwater management and being an example of a “good citizen”, even with the unreasonable burden of local government regulations. I’m trying to turn my lemon into lemonade and drink it too.
I just empty them in the fall. Zone 5 winters. I do intend to experiment this year though, with putting a rubber ball on the end of a pole, and shoving it down into the back side of the spigot, under the water. I’m pretty sure the rest of the tote would have no problems with freezing water. The spigot is the main concern. My thought is that a rubber ball that maintains air inside should allow the expanding ice on the back of the spigot to crush the ball rather than break the spigot. But that’s just a theory at this point.
I have been adding all kinds of rainwater storage for the same reason you have - lower Ph water. My well water is loades with calcium since I live on a limestone ridge (and it sticks out of the ground everywhere). My options to bury containers are limited, but I have managed as you suggest by raising the grade with a wall.
I have buried a 250 gallon “tote” as they are called, food grade, that I buy from a local guy on Craigs list. He gets them from various truckers who seem to collect them as empties from deliveries. They are all heavy duty to be able to transport liquids. Barrels are self supporting and need no special fill around them if you bury them. The totes have a steel frame ,and without it will sag like one of those massive pumpkins some folks grow. The one I buried did not have a frame( I assumed the thin steel of the cage would rust out, but this one didn’t have a cage anyway) and I was counting on the fill around it to support it when filled. That actually worked reasonably well, but I think if I drained it empty it might start to buckle inward. Next time I would probably plan to use a layer of hard fill (your busted concrete and bricks would be good) against the tote. It’s less likely to push uniformly against the tote than loose soil and also would improve the drainage around the tote to keep the freezing ground from crushing things (freezing soil expands if it holds moisture).
I don’t know how you plan to plumb your set up, but you can buy ‘bulkhead’ fittings on Amazon which are made to give a leakproof, threaded hole wherever you like. Mine all work on gravity.
On my above ground tote I leave it full for the winter. The drain valve is located at the bottom of one side. What I did was use a bulkhead fitting and PVC pipe fittings on the inside of the tote to make an elbow facing up (the top of the tote is cut open so I can climb in). Now that it’s full of water I can push a length of PVC pipe into the elbow from above and then leave the outside drain valve open. Freezing around the outside of the pipe can’t crush the round shape since it’s even pressure, and there’s no water in the pipe to freeze. In spring I just pull the pipe back out from above and the drain is open again. The buried tote is fine since the ground will freeze around it at the same rate the water will freeze in it.
Good to know this. I’ve been debating whether to keep some of it as fill or bury most of it discreetly in an appropriate location.
At work I usually call this a threaded reducer, although with the addition of a rubber gasket, calling it a bulkhead may be the proper terminology. Regardless, I hadn’t set my mind on any particular plumbing strategy but I was planning on grabbing fittings from a local place we usually use, they are almost certainly cheaper than Amazon and we shop there enough that I’ll probably get a discount regardless. Amazon seems to have a good selection in stock. What size did you go with? I assume the IBC tote I’m scheduled to get will probably have a ~2" hole already at the bottom, I’m thinking I’ll do 3" for the overflow since that is the current pipe diameter of the downspout. 4" is more common though so I’ll see what I already have.
I AM concerned about valve breakage from the elements since it will be fairly exposed by default unless I rig up something like a “horizontal valve box” (bigger piece of scrap pipe I can stick my hand in) which I could “close” (put rock or something in front of it in the winter as insulation from freezing).
I’m wondering similarly about the irrigation setup I bought parts for and haven’t installed yet. That might go in partially tomorrow if I have time.
If I was going to bury a tank under a porch / deck , I would use the “ribbed “ tanks ,like a septic tank , that are designed for direct burial, except one approved for potable water.
Placing it on a bed of gravel with French drain to daylight. Backfilled with gravel around the tank down to the French drain. And plumbed with appropriate size overflow . These tanks are more expensive than your barrel or IBC totes, but cheaper than replacing a failed tank at a later date.
I use IBC totes and barrels above ground where appropriate.
Good luck !
I don’t need one, I’m blessed with well water taping one hell of an aquifer. But the more that I think about it, the more convinced I am that I would install a large tank upwards to 1,000 gallons. Heck if under the porch it only needs to be partially buried for space savings.
The way the weather is going it would buy me a lot of insurance. As stated, you can shop on CL and Marketplace, they do come up and the ones that come up this time of the year are cheaper as people are not buying them and those selling them are just trying to get rid of them. A solid option for the second hand market is the standard 275 gallon tanks, I have seen them pop up from time to time:
Two of those partially buried under the porch would take minimal space and give you 550 gallons of peace of mind. The footprint of 10 55-gallon drums is about 34 square feet. The foot print of two of these is about 25 square feet. That’s 25% less space and they would look at lot neater.
Heck the cage would make for a nice start on a compost bin.
If this is the only reason to install water storage then it seems like a massive waste of money and effort when you can just put down sulfur around your plants instead.
I’m curious to know, what is your water source now, and what is the pH? What is the pH of your soil?
I also want to reduce my runoff footprint and be an example of what everyone should be doing. Having a tote of water is nice if the municipal supply every fails me too.
I’ll be honest, I haven’t done a pH test, but the soil profile on my lot is primarily thin topsoil /sod on top of a layer of coal spoil (broken glass bottles included!) and then some decent stuff below that (silty clay it seems).
I’ve amended the blueberry beds with sphagnum moss and spruce chips and cut up junipers recently. I am building my “good soil” on top of the garbage I started with.
There are some pretty rain tanks out there if the under-deck option doesn’t work.
Anything plastic has to be protected from sunlight (some people use paint) or you’ll wind up with an icky algae problem. Plus they’ll eventually get brittle.
Friends have tried using septic tanks for rain catch but they’re designed to remain full. Pretty disappointing when they float out!
Septic tanks, by design, are always full so they are heavy and won’t float out of the ground. Rainwater tanks that are bury won’t float out when they’re full, but the idea is to use the water. I had a friend who buried 2 septic tanks for rainwater, and all was good until the ground around the tanks became saturated and at the same time the tanks were pumped down. The tanks literally popped out of the ground.
