I can’t answer that, but you could let us know the answer from this kind gentleman Buzz Ferver of Perfect Circle Farm
Hi Barkslip, Buzz is where i purchased it from. He said he would send me some pics. I was just wondering if anyone else has heard about it. Thanks for your reply.
At his website when items were not sold out he had definitions or short stories about some of the for sale items he was promoting and ‘Hickory’ I recall having a story where “it was likely the famous such and such”
So, maybe you may ask Buzz.
Bumping this one up for some updates.
I got to visit Fred Blankenship at his property about 2 weeks ago, and gathered scionwood from a number of trees there. Hope I’m able to get them all started here.
Fred has a half-dozen seedlings of ‘Grainger’ that he dug up from beneath the Grainger tree at Bernheim Forest Arboretum 20 years or so ago, and planted out at his place: BBG#1 looks to be a very good shagbark, may challenge Grainger; BBG#5 good but less desirable than #1.
‘Lorane’, a shagbark selection he got from someone in Ohio (I think), is a Grainger seedling, and Fred says it’s better(similar size, better fill/plumper kernel) than Grainger. He’s hoping to do a LoraneXLake Icaria cross this spring.
Takeaway… Grainger seedlings appear to have a really good likelihood of being worthy of cultivation… perhaps as many as half of them will produce superior quality nuts.
‘T-5’ is a sibling or seedling of ‘Simpson #1’ - growing in close proximity to the Simpson ortet, and Fred says it’s actually a better nut than Simpson #1.
Fred still recommends Grainger, Porter, Lake Icaria, Simpson #1, and Etter hican(formerly known as Keystone/Grimo-5), but newer, exciting discoveries/developments are continuing to appear.
Fred and I, and others, have determined that Lake Icaria does not ‘like’ pecan rootstock… graft success rates have been low, and it has struggled to grow well, so we are going to ‘move’ it to hickory rootstocks this spring and hope for better results.
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Bump.
I was just reading this thread for the recommendations, then saw Happy’s question about the Hershey tree and thought I’d answer in the hopes this thread wakes up as well.
The “Hershey” hican tree Buzz grafts comes from John W. Hershey’s Nut Tree Nursery in Downingtown PA. LMK if you don’t know the details about JWH and NTN - that’s a story in itself. Anyway, the tree “tentatively” identified as Hershey is a grafted multi-trunked tree with bark that looks more like ash to me than hickory or pecan. The tree is very productive in good years, and the nuts are very tasty in my opinion with a good combination of pecan and hickory flavors. Its primary flaw is it doesn’t crack well, but if you have a good nutcracker it’s a nut well worth having.
Here are three photos of the tree I took on 10/18/2013 (I was up there on Thursday and it looks the same - had pretty much finished dropping) and one of the nuts.
Here’s what I find interesting though…
Hershey thought enough of this tree to graft it at NTN. I’ve got 45 copies of Hershey’s catalogs covering 1925 - 1966 (his last) in which he lists 7 hican nut tree varieties for sale, plus another 3 ornamentals. “Hershey” hican is not listed in all those years of catalogs. The nut hicans he does list are:
Hican - Bixby (Pecan x Shellbark)
Hican - Gerardi (Pecan x Shellbark)
Hican - McAllister (Pecan x Shellbark)
Hican - Pleas (Pecan x Bitternut)
Hican - Wright (Pecan x Shellbark)
Hican - Dad’s Miracle (Pecan x Shellbark)
Hican - Burton (Pecan x Shellbark)
Judging from his catalogs, Bixby, Gerardi, Wright, Dad’s Miracle, and Burton made the trip from his old East Downingtown location to his new NTN location in 1945. Again, no mention of “Hershey.”
We know what a Bixby and a Burton look like - the “Hershey” isn’t one of them. That leaves Gerardi (or Geraldi? There could be at least one spelling variation on this one), Wright, and Dad’s Miracle as possible identities of this nut/tree.
There’s a photo of Gerardi on p 105 of NNGA’s Annual Report #35 - it’s not the same nut as the “Hershey.” (I wonder if it’s still around?)
That leaves Wright and “Dad’s Miracle,” which I don’t see mentioned anywhere…
Zach Elfers lists Wright hican on the scionwood page of his futureforestplants.com website, so I emailed him to see what he knows…
…
So late last night I heard back from Zach. Turns out “Hershey” was indeed just a temporary name used before the tree was positively identified. Zach confirmed my suspicion that the tree is actually a WRIGHT HICAN, a tree introduced by John W. Hershey and first listed in his spring 1936 catalog (though I don’t have a catalog from 1935, so JWH could have introduced it then). Zach tells me both Parker Coble and Fayette Etter had Wright pecans as well, one of which was labeled and matches the one at NTN in Downingtown.
Here’s JWH’s description of the Wright from his spring 1936 catalog:
Wright Hican - Pecan x Shellbark Hybrid
Laciniosa x Olivieformis (sic)
This remarkable Hybrid is a most rapid grower, Mother tree standing near Sumner, Mo., is reported a good bearer. Nut large as a southern pecan and looks like a pecan. Flavor high and different from anything else I have ever tasted.
Note that back then you could get a grafted tree of 2-3 feet tall for $2, or a dozen for $20!
If you’re still reading, thanks for sticking with me this far, and hope this helped! I’ve got a 3 YO Wright seedling out back (it has 5 leaves!) and will be grafting Wright at some point in the next year or two.
Sorry for the lousy photo - the website would only let me upload one pic so I had to combine them.
-Pete
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@Petebacher Great detective work! Well done.
Hmmm… I wonder if Lake Icaria might like a 5-leafed Wright seedling rootstock better? Does anyone have it grafted and happy? If so, on what? I recall when “Treebird” discovered it years ago and I was hoping I could graft it one day. Wish I had some acreage to plant out a bunch of nuts on. Superior Grainger seedlings sound exciting and fun (though a bit long-term)!
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Thanks for the great information
I have a Hershey,Granger hickory, a porter, and t-92 hican from Bez. They are 2yrs old and about 2feet tall.
Thank you for sharing this, it is great information.
Bump.
Can anyone source me a Lake Icaria scion? I’ve got a Wright hican seedling I’d like to try grafting Icaria onto to see how it does. I understand it’s not done well on run of the mill northern pecan rootstocks, so I thought a wright would be an interesting test (Wright has some crazy bark compared to most other pecans and edible hickories - see my photos above - looks more like an ash to me!)
-Pete
You’d be so better off grafting Grainger. There are cultivars now that are also seedlings of Grainger.
Lake Icaria is somewhere like after the first 6-10 best/(better) shagbark culitvars. There was a lot of hype cause it is Tyler Halvin whom found it. And he wrote with a lot of excitement so people went wild trying to get it & they will continue to as they read the internet!
The best shagbark in the world in my opinion is Lorane. A seedling of Grainger.
Dax
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I would like to get my hands on a stick or two of scionwood for “Gary’s Unknown Hican” and “Lorane”. Any suggestions as for sourcing?
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England’s Orchard and Nursery
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Thank you Dax!
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somebody gotta drive the semi! honk! honk!
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I compiled some stuff that hopefully helps someone. Credit to/copied from: Future Forest Plants, Rockbridge Trees, Perfect Circle
| Bowman — a shagbark selection from Missouri, 1931. This is a really nice nut, but it’s downside is low weevil-resistance. | |
|---|---|
| Bridgewater is a large thin shelled Shagbark Hickory that originated near Bridgewater Connecticut. It cracks nicely and has a good hickory flavor | |
| Bullnut Shellbark Hickory is a heavy bearing Shellbark. The kernel quality is good but the shelling quality while better than most Shellbarks is not the very best. The main draw here is heavy annual crops | |
| Coble’s Sweeties — a hican from Parker Coble. Excellent flavor — sweet nut. Small nut but very high productivity, and bears in bad seasons too. This tree would do well bearing in the north. | |
| Conowingo — my shagbark selection from Lancaster county, PA. Very large shagbark, comparable to Grainger or slightly larger. Round nut, thin shell, outstanding cracking. | |
| Dooley Seedling — a seedling of Burton hican grown out by Ken Dooley. Makes a larger, easier cracking nut than its parent, Burton, and is highly weevil resistant. | |
| Etter hican — a complex hickory hybrid grown by Fayette Etter. Looks to be a hybrid between McAllister hican and Weschcke shagbark. | |
| Fairbanks — shagbark x bitternut hybrid. Anamosa, Iowa, 1910. | |
| Fayette — one of Fayette Etter’s best shellbark selections. Excellent all-around nut. | |
| The Fayette Shellbark Hickory was discovered in 1932 by Fayette Etter from Franklin County PA. Fayette has a large nut at 38 nuts per pound with a typical Shellbark thick shell but it cracks surprisingly easily. It is in fact said to be one of the easiest Shellbarks to crack. The nuts crack into whole halves which fall easily from the shell. The nuts yield 34.4% nutmeats which is very high for a Shellbark Hickory. The nutmeat color is a medium brown and the flavor is delightful. | |
| The nuts are as large or larger than a Black Walnut and in the husk appear enormous on the tree. The trees are hardy in zones 6 to 8. | |
| Florrin-Smith — old classic shellbark variety producing a large nut. | |
| Fox - Fox Shagbark Hickory was selected for admirable qualities in New York State. Fox appears to be well adapted to New England and should do well in most northern States. | |
| Grainger — considered by many the best shagbark selection there is. Introduced by John Hershey in 1936 after receiving nuts from a farmer in Grainger county Tennessee. Weevil-resistant. Recommended for zones 5b and above. | |
| The Grainger Shagbark Hickory was discovered in Tennessee in 1935. It has a very large nut for a Shagbark Hickory almost as big as a Shellbark Hickory nut. Grainger bears regularly and shells out easily into mostly halves. | |
| It is a good pollinator of other hickories. Good in zones 5 to 8 | |
| Hales Papershell — the first hickory cultivar propagated by grafting, c. 1870. This is a shagbark of outrageous size and very thin shell. However, it has low weevil-resistance. It is self-pollinating somewhat but will also set a lot of blanks without adequate pollination from other trees. | |
| Heisey — a shagbark selection, (most likely) a seedling of Grainger that is practically indistinguishable from their parent. | |
| Hoffeditz — another fine shellbark selection from Fayette Etter. | |
| Holterman — one of the best all-around shellbarks in terms of size, cracking, and storage. | |
| James — a natural hican (shellbark x pecan cross) found in Brunswick, Missouri in 1977 by George James. Recommended by zones 6a and above. | |
| J. Yoder #1 Shagbark Hickory was selected for its superior nut size and outstanding shelling properties. It shells out in mostly whole halves. The nutmeats are sweet and delicious. Improved varieties have an internal shell structure that allows the nutmeats to be extracted whole. The shell itself is much thinner than a typical Shagbark Hickory nut making them much much easier to crack. | |
| Jay’s Giant — this pecan comes from Indian Head, Maryland. Tree produces a large nut, fully filled, that drops in October. Highly productive tree. Recommended for USDA zones 6b and above. | |
| Jobstown — a shagbark hickory from Ted Daniecki in NJ. The largest shagbark nut I’ve ever seen. Thin shell, crackability is excellent. Definitely a winner. | |
| Keystone — one of the finest shellbark selections from Fayette Etter, from Franklin county Pennsylvania. | |
| Lebanon Junction Shellbark Hickory | |
| Longenecker — good shellbark selection introduced by Miles Nolt of Manheim, Pennsylvania. Although this nut is large and cracks out beautifully, it is quite susceptible to weevil damage if unmanaged. | |
| Longnecker Shellbark Hickory is a thin shelled selection of Shellbark Hickory. They shell out in mostly whole halves. Excellent Hickory flavor and large nutmeats. Grafted Hickories bear in 8 to 10 years as opposed to 20+ years for seedling trees. | |
| Major — classic pecan variety suited for the north. Original tree from Green River, Kentucky. | |
| Mitch Russell — shagbark x shellbark selection from Fred Blankenship. Very productive, even in bad years. Cracks well, excellent flavor. | |
| Mitch Russell Hickory is a Shagbark- Shellbark hybrid. It is unique in that it has both Shagbark leaves , compound leaves of 5 leaflets and Shellbark leaves, compound leaves of 7 leaflets on the same tree. The nuts are large and thin shelled and crack out nicely. Flavor is great. | |
| Parker — chance shellbark seedling from Parker Coble. Prize-winning nut with excellent size and traits. | |
| Pleas — pecan x bitternut hybrid. Claremore, Oklahoma, 1915. | |
| Porter — excellent shagbark selection introduced by Mrs. Delmont Williams from a tree on the Porter farm in Mackeyville, Pennsylvania, 1960. | |
| The Porter Shagbark Hickory is a medium sized nut with excellent cracking qualities. It comes from Pennsylvania where it has won awards in nut grower contests for cracking quality and flavor. | |
| Retzer — a shagbark hickory selection from Oscar Hoerner, Pennsylvania. | |
| Richmond Furnace — excellent shellbark introduced by Jack Winieski, 1970s. Original tree from Franklin county PA. | |
| Scholl — an excellent shellbark from Ohio (Bud Luers). Comparable to Henning and Holterman. | |
| Selbher Shellbark Hickory is a thin shelled Shellbark selection. Shellbark Hickory nuts are much larger than Shagbark nuts. They are also called king nut and can be as big as a Black Walnut. Typical Shellbark nuts are very hard and thick shelled. Selected varieties are chosen for thin shells and easier shelling qualities. Many selected cultivars shell out in whole halves. Flavor is rich and distinctive. Hickory nut pie is a delicacy. | |
| Simpson #1 — shellbark variety popularized by Fred Blankenship. Very heavy bearer. The original tree was hundreds of years old. | |
| The Simpson Shellbark Hickory is a Kentucky variety named in 2004. It is a heavy bearing tree with medium sized nuts. ( Still larger than a Shagbark ) The nuts crack easily into whole halves and the flavor is outstanding. | |
| Sinking Fork — shagbark selection from Lucky Pittman, Kentucky. | |
| Stauffer — fine shellbark selection from Fayette Etter. | |
| Weiker — first propagated 1903 by the great J. F. Jones from a tree near Lancaster, PA “Said to have been one of the original forest trees spared when the land was cleared 200 years ago because of the fine nuts it bore.” Appears to be a shagbark x shellbark hybrid. | |
| Weschcke — hybrid shagbark x bitternut introduced by Carl Weschcke, 1926, from a tree found in Fayette, Iowa. | |
| The Weschke Shagbark Hickory comes from Iowa. This Hickory was found by Carl Weschke near Fayette Iowa and was named in 1926. The nuts are ordinary in size but thin shelled with an excellent hickory flavor. The family where I get my scionwood gathers these before any of the other improved hickories on the property. The nuts crack out into mostly halves. | |
| Weschke is pollen sterile and will need a pollinator | |
| Wilmoth Shagbark Hickory was selected by Les Wilmoth in KY. It has a la+A14:A54rge nut for a Shagbark Hickory. The size is similar to Yoder #1. It cracks out into mostly whole halves and the flavor is very good. The tree seems to have good form and bears heavily |
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This is great info. I’m pretty green when it comes to Caryas. In this neck of the woods, they seem to be less generalist, and more dependent upon ideal site conditions than perhaps elsewhere in the heart of their range.
I live in the piedmont and spend most my time prowling the uplands. Shag bark seems to have a pretty good presence in the river valleys. On upland sites, it seems to grow densely in very specific spots, and I believe a lot of it has to do with calcareous bedrock.
Bitternut/ yellow bud is the one species that seems to proliferate and grow nearly anywhere here.
This will be my first year grafting some Caryas. I’m starting with Grainger and Weschke. I intend to graft them to bitternut. I know that pecan is the preferred rootstock by most, but if bitternut is far happier in my soil and has much less need for water, calcium, nitrogen, etc. wouldn’t that make more sense?
Bitternut grows a bit slow compared with most shagbark and shellbark hickories. The graft should work, just expect it to look a bit odd 30 years from now.
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Thanks much,
The upland shagbarks seem quite slow growing, comparatively, though admittedly I don’t spend enough time around them to say that for sure. There are large bitternuts here that are able to compete in a forest setting.
Often they seem to be growing with sugar maple IME, but it’s also kind of a weedy generalist.
Bitternut is best adapted in riparian stream banks but will also grow to some extend on upland locations. Shagbark has similar requirements. Shellbark prefers rich bottom land. Mockernut is best adapted to upland locations readily growing and thriving where the others don’t. Pignut hickory can handle some upland areas but is a bit more demanding for soil type. Pecan is arguably the most broadly adapted, but there are plenty of examples that don’t thrive on upland soils. Water hickory is pretty much the name, thrives in swamps and seriously wet soils.
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