High density fruit tree planting and zone pushing

mins
my low this morning was actually 30F (#3) and i could see frost on the ground. btw #1 and #2 are my greenhouses which i insulated with cardboard, landscape fabric and blankets. i need to start recording every low i am getting on a calendar for every day in Dec, Jan, Feb and compare to the weather outlets histories. the coldest day i experienced here was mid 20s for the highs and upper 10s for the lows probably in 2018 or 2019 winter but when i go back to try to find that date (on weather underground) i can’t find anything even close to those numbers and it shows me Pensacola airport history only, not my area. i really feel like i am going crazy because i can recall that day very clearly - i was on the beach and my toes were numb.

1 Like

Does the temperature sensor with your weather station have a radiation shield? If not the sensor probe/enclosure could lose excessive heat to space with clear skies and read lower at night than nearby shielded stations. Fan aspiration improves accuracy as well unless you have continuous wind flow to warrant passive shielding.

Edit…looks like one of these

And yeah, these can read a little too cold on clear nights as well. What we’re trying to measure is the temperature at 1.5-2m. The sensor is just going to report the temp it “senses”. So if the enclosure is losing excessive heat to space, the sensor will just measure the temp of the enclosure surface which isn’t necessarily representative of the true 2m temperature even if we mount it at 2m. It may only be a couple of degrees difference, but I thought I’d just point that out.

Those Davis stations with the fan aspiration pull the air in through the bottom of the chamber, pass it over the sensor, and then exhausts out through the top. So it protects the sensor from radiative effects while providing rapid response and accuracy. Just thought I’d throw in my weather observing $0.02. :wink:

3 Likes

evidently i can’t post links yet. if you google for “pics of the yard.- several species, new orleans” you’ll see pics of some tropical fruit trees that can handle at least 21F.

according to “florida natural farming” on youtube, bananas share potassium with nearby fruit trees which gives them more cold tolerance. he usually cites his sources in the video description but i can’t remember which video it was. i don’t think it’s sharing, i think it’s trading. plants trade their surplus resources with each other via mycorrhizal fungi.

edit: greenman62 has a relevant post “nitrogen fixing plants and fruit trees” as well as “a couple of plants back from 20F”. i’m looking through all the threads he started.

2 Likes

i don’t know if it has a radiation shield but i had a regular thermometer next to one of the sensors to see and it was about the same +/- 1 degree.

3 Likes

In general, any thermometer with an open view of the sky is going to have accuracy problems on those clear, calm nights, so the “regular” thermometer also is inaccurate if it doesn’t have shielding. Here’s what I do for shielding on mine (mylar around a PVC pipe that has a rain cover allowing air flow), but this is also intentionally mounted lower than an official weather station because I want to know what the cold air is like pooling around the base of my trees:

1 Like

no cold protection for these plants? i protected my subtropicals with frost cloths & tents when we had a deep freeze back in January, reported low was 20F, mid 20s overnight. my in ground pitangatuba (mature tree) was killed and my younger potted one in the greenhouse was damaged, natal plums had damage but are still alive. cherry of the rio grande trees defoliated a bit but overall not that damaged. my seedling surinam cherry tree in a pot in the greenhouse defoliated but is growing back new leaves. pitomba also in a pot in greenhouse got damaged but is alive. moringa and neem seedlings were in the greenhouse and got badly damaged but still alive in the lower trunks. a white sapote in a pot in the greenhouse defoliated but is growing back new leaves.

1 Like

i was thinking of interplanting bananas and moringa throughout the backyard mainly for chop and drop, would provide good nutrients for the other trees. people plant banana circles here in Florida but i think they are better interplanted throughout the yard.

4 Likes

looks like a lot of work, wouldn’t shielding interfere with the radiofrequency signals the sensors have to transmit?

2 Likes

I don’t think it makes much sense trying to add shielding to the sensors that you are using, but the more high-end/professional weather stations all include shielding on their thermometers for this reason. I think for your existing setup, it’s more just that you should be aware of this possible source of inaccurate readings on clear/cold nights.

In my case, it’s a DIY setup where I started with a little electronic chip without any kind of housing, so I just designed it with shielding in mind when I decided how to enclose it. Here’s the thread with details for my setup:

The actual computer that is transmitting the readings is on the other side of the wall, with wires running out to the temperature chip.

1 Like

Richard, you might be overestimating it.


Seconded!

1 Like

Rose apples, star fruit?

Also, checkout this guy on Etsy. He sells some interesting tropicals and based in Florida.I have purchased a few plants from him and they have done well.https://www.etsy.com/shop/GrowerJim

1 Like

Does this mean VdB doesn’t respond with vigorous growth when pruned heavily unlike other figs?

1 Like

My VdB has been a very slow grower and seems to be the most prone to frost damage. I rooted a cutting 2 years ago and it’s still barely more than a few sticks, after getting frost-pruned last year and it looks like it’s lost the growing tips again this year. I’ll try feeding it more this year to see if that helps, but I do agree it’s my slowest growing fig out of about a dozen varieties I started from cuttings at that same time.

1 Like

I have a friend with a VDB tree, it was huge and she had it cut to nothing couple of years back. It has come back nicely.

2 Likes

I’m glad to hear they can be vigorous! To show you what I mean about my one anecdotal situation, here’s the VdB that I planted about 2 years ago after rooting indoors over the winter:

By contrast, this buried 64 gal tub has three other fig varieties in it that were planted at the same time, you can see the slight difference in vigor:

Those are RdB, Olympian, and Parise Purple.

2 Likes

interesting, I can’t explain how her tree grew that big (you can see the chopped trunk in the picture). I think the old one was 15-20 yrs old, the new trunk you see in the picture is 2 yrs old.

1 Like

Could be misidentified, or maybe just made it to a sufficient size of root ball to support more vigorous growth.

2 Likes

Chilean guava would likely do well for you.

How about some loquats?

Amongst your citrus do you have sudachi? It’s very good, small floral lime. Very cold hardy. Some sources say a few seeds but so far mine produce seedless fruit. No idea why.

i was looking into ugni molinae and luma apiculata but a few Floridians said it does not grow here due to the high humidity. i have loquats. and lots of citrus, most citrus do well here.

1 Like