My zone has been moved up from Z6 to Z7. We get some -5 to -10 degree F nights every few years. Most of the time it only gets to +5 to +10 degrees F when cold spell hits.
Will a Fuyu live here or will it die in subzero weather? I’ve got a Nakita’s Gift and it has done fine here for 13 years.
Die.
They do fine here in 6b/7a, but it rarely gets much below 10 degrees. Teens are usual lows.
You oughta petition the USDA to get reclassified!
Z6B implies an average winter low temperature of 0 to -5 F. That means that it’s not unusual for temps to dip to -10 F or thereabouts at least once each winter.
I happen to have been on the border of Z6B/7A until the recent reclassification by the USDA. Now I’m solidly Z7A. As you say, it “rarely gets much below 10 degrees.” But as an example, last Feb we had two nights at -5 F and -7 F. And it only takes 1-2 days at -5 F to kill most persimmons.
So let’s get down to data: How many Fuyu’s do you grow? For how long? What is the worst temp they have endured?
These zones are confusing. We are the same zone, but you are much further north which I think makes a difference in winter harshness. I have several, 4-fuyu, 2-jiro, and 4-other non-astingents. My oldest one is about I guess 8 years old. It’s seen near 0 (with no damage), but on average around 10-20 are the lows. Astringents are slightly more cold hardy.
Your zone is based on average lowest temperature over the past 30 years.
We recently got classified as zone 9A from 8B.
This winter, the temperature hit sub 15F for 2 nights in a row. This was colder at my location than the past 15 years at the very least. This was a zone 8a winter.
The problem with taking average low temperature is that there could be a huge swing (aka high standard deviation).
Safest is to go 1-1.5 zones down from indicated zone to ensure no plant loss.
I learned the hard way that Asian persimmons are not z6b NEPA hardy. They repeatedly die back or outright die.
In 7za Md, they can survive in a courtyard or sheltered fenced urban yard, but still don’t do particularly well. They just kind of languish.
It’s the cold desiccating winds of winter that zap them.
I grew Asian persimmons for several years at both locations and never got a single fruit. Heartbreaking.
Here is some 6b/7a action. Not all 6b/7a are created equal. I started with potted plants. All of my bare root attempts died.
After much effort, I would not suggest any pure kaki for usda 2012 z6b, except maybe Inchon. For sure not Fuyu.
Here is my updated thoughts:
OK, that’s helpful. But what its means is that your experience has no application to a persimmon that experiences actual Z6B temperatures, which would average as low as -5 F with deviations to -10 F or worse.
My zone is exactly like you said yours is. I was 6b/7a and like you it moved to straight 7a. I go back to my statement above. Not all 6b/7a (7a) are created equal. In my opinion it is more valuable to find people near you and see what their results on trees have been. I’m proof those growing zones can not be relied on.
Yeah, I get that. My point is that just because you haven’t seen -5 F to -10 F (and therefore dead persimmons) is sheer luck. So you shouldn’t advise somebody else in Z6 that persimmons will be OK.
The correct answer to the question in the original post is that a non-astringent Asian persimmon (such as Fuyu) planted in Z6 will be OK until it isn’t. Maybe OK lasts 1 year, maybe it lasts 5 years. But eventually the tree will be killed by cold.
By definition, the average winter low in Z6 is 0 to -5 F. There will be some years colder than average. We should not extrapolate based on a few years of experience in one location.
There is a random factor to persimmons dying, I have had below 0F weather and had nothing die and I have had things die with a 5-10F low. My Fuyu type (Jiro in particular) eventually succumbed in the latter range. 20th Century has been the most hardy of the crunchy types for me. It also lasted for 40+ years in the Wye plantation in Maryland where there were multiple below-zero winters.
So if you wanted to try in “7A” I would suggest putting in 3-4 trees of different varieties and expecting some will die and need replacing now and then.
The original poster said they were now 7a. I’m not debating against what you are saying, just find out what others near you are growing. There are tons of people growing persimmon here, so not all 6b/7a are the same. There are plenty on the forum in 7a growing persimmon. My advice to the OP was to not rule it out based on growing zone, but to find out what others near them are growing. You are correct that mine may get wiped out one year, but that can happen in any growing zone. That’s not stopping me from growing them.
Agreed. But note that “random” technically means “from causes unknown.” Something is random until we figure it out.
There is solid scientific evidence that persimmon hardiness depends on the calendar. Buds are very hardy in early to mid-winter (i.e., late Dec - Jan) but become progressively less hardy in late winter and early spring (Feb to April). I forget the exact numbers but the order of magnitude is roughly cold hardiness to -10 F or even -15 F in early winter during deep dormancy but only +5 to +15 in early spring. That’s for the same variety, just at different times. I think the tested varieties included better-known PCNAs such as Fuyu and Jiro.
Yes it definitely depends on the calendar. But it’s still some random element: I never lost more than one tree in any winter… half a dozen didn’t die. Some of this is variety based but some that died were in the hardiest category. The vigor of the tree is an important factor which is part of this “randomness”. With enough data the randomness could be known but it’s only guesswork with a few data points.
Will those low temps kill the entire persimmon tree or just kill a few branches?
Don’t know anyone around here that grows persimmons.
A big problem for me is $$, space and time. Locally there are only 6 persimmon trees are for sale. 3 of them are American Persimmon trees. Maybe they are 3 feet tall for $100 each. Normally I’d experiment. I plant trees and if they don’t work out, I pull them. But very little space left. Also, there is the time aspect. I’m old, so can’t wait forever for small, slow growing trees to find out they duds. And then there is the $. Persimmons are very $$ to experiment with.
If cold can kill a Fuyu to the ground, I don’t know if it is worth it for me to experiment with it. I’ve had good luck with my Natika’s Gift, so will keep trying to get another one. Sad that the market is so spotty for buying them. One seller said you have to reserve your NG tree this summer to buy for 2025 season. Terrible!
Thanks for the persimmon list, Paul!
