Not sure. I will admit to being somewhat suspicious of many modern interventions, including penicillin- which in fact probably saved my life when I had blood poisoning. The more systemic they are the more I am likely to be uncomfortable with them. So I will use topical steriods when I have an eczema flare up, but really prefer to avoid oral prednisone.
Frankly, I do not have complete confidence in science, not because I don’t believe in knowledge, but because I’m a little cynical about people.
I think it is totally reasonable to have a bit of scepticism when one side seems to benefit greatly. For example, there were scientists that knew back in the 40s that adding tetraethyl lead to gasoline was a health hazard. However, lead was by far the cheapest and best anti-knock agent available, so auto manufacturers basically bulldozed over public health officials and scientists who might have sounded the alarm, and thereby poisoned an entire generation of people.
However, pre-antibiotics, things like an infected cut could kill a healthy man in the prime of his life. Millions and millions of people died due to bacterial infections that were suddenly treatable thanks to penicillin and other anti-biotics. Sure, antibiotics have side effects, which is why they should only be used if needed-but nobody is really making money on these things (a generic prescription may cost you only a few bucks) and they’ve had decades and decades to prove how lifesaving they are.
I’m not trying to argue you out of being sceptical but so many scientific developments have made life so much easier-which is why we even have the luxury of having a lot of these debates to begin with! Maybe pesticide X could cause cancer. But it also makes fruit and vegetables so much easier to grow and cuts their price in half, meaning so many more people can afford to eat fruits and vegetables. Is the benefit greater than the risk? Maybe, maybe not, but unlike our ancestors, we are able to actually have these conversations instead of being subject to the whims of nature as to what crops we can grow and where we can grow them.
Well, you’re pretty much preaching to the choir with me! (But maybe I should point out that now I am allergic to penicillin!)
And a little counterbalance is in order: Sure, antibiotics are great, and improved quantities of high quality food? Great! But cavalier use of antibiotics is undeniably risky. And so on.
And the same is true of pesticides.
Aye. (And thus the “and so on” in my note above . . . ) : -)
I believe the best way to use pesticides effectively and safely is to always use an effective material against the targeted pest, spray at the right point in the insects life cycle at the proper rate and only spray when necessary. Integrated Pest Management is the buzz word that describes this approach.
Some insecticides are broad spectrum and kill most of the the bad bugs and most of the good bugs as well. Some insecticides only kill certain insects and are easy on beneficials, so its important to know what problems you are trying to solve. Spraying the wrong stuff or at the wrong time is a waste of time and money and can create other problems. This targeted approach requires more knowledge and patience.
The Signal Word on the label as well as the PHI and REI are some good indications of the safety of the pesticide. However, the PHI for any given material may vary a lot from fruit to fruit and I’m not sure why. The label also defines the correct type of protective equipment to be used. I always wear a respirator even if the label does not require one.
I found the pesticide that was recommended to me and I’m using, here:
Can someone put this into perspective for me with other things we’re using in daily life? Going by this alone, it looks like something you’d never want to have anything to do with, let alone have spray drift back in your face.
On another forum, someone with more knowledge on this than I said they’ve never seen this chemical used on fruit before. In fact, if you use a lot of that type you should get regular blood tests because it can build up in your system.
This doesn’t seem to match the information my wife was given locally that it’s completely harmless, very mild, and The impression is that you can use it pretty much all over the place whenever you want.
As a side,
Some good comments here.
Most of the classification systems you’re relying on to use products in a realistic way don’t exist where I’m living right now, so I’m going to have to get another translator and figure out the local classification systems, which will be a PITA. Even with this, I’m not 100% comfortable with the whole process for reasons mentioned by others here like
Marknmt. Most of the fruit will be eaten by young kids, and I don’t need the translation hassles etc., let alone the actual work of growing it successfully! I can see this being a really nasty issue, because you’ve got dangerous products, lack of clarity or consensus, and massive avability to the public.
Anyway, I didn’t want to get too far off the topic of the thread.
Further on topic with the thread, how does this sound as a ‘safe as I can be’ way to apply pesticides:
Full painters coverall suit with hood, OR dedicated clothes for that purpose
Sealed goggles
Dedicated pesticide spray can with a wand
Rubber boots and gloves
Paper mask
This last one I’m not sure of. Good quality ones with a valve that won’t fog up your glasses or leak are a bit expensive to be thrown away every time you use them. It’s possible to get active carbon filled ones, but again the cost is quite high if you’re going to be throwing them away every time. If it’s only a couple of times a year, I guess I could justify it. But at this point I’m not really sure how it’s all gonna work out.
It appears to be a less toxic analogue to Parathion. It’s a general use organo phosphate pesticide. I’ve never heard of it until now so it’s not something commonly used on fruit. I’d be more inclined to use malathion or sevin if you can find them.
Thanks a lot Fruitnut. I had someone do an Internet search locally, and they said the active ingredient used in Sevin is available here, but it’s considered a more toxic pesticide and not used as much as the one recommended specifically for beetles on grape leaves, Sumithion, that I was given.
Confusing I know, as it doesn’t match the information I found for treating beetles on grape leaves in English in the States.
I’m trying my best to get information on how it’s done locally, but I’m relying on other people to translate for me, so I have no control over when and how it’s done.
The most efficient way will probably get be to get a translator to get in touch with professional growers locally and find out the type and scheduled they are using, and then just copy that. This might take until after harvest time, so very frustrating sometimes for me.
I know when I took O-Chem classes in college, we had to write down the MSDS of all the chemicals we used. You would’ve thought benzene would’ve jumped off the lab bench and killed you. Just saying I think there’s a little bit of a divide there-MSDS seems to cover worst case scenario only, not typical use.
I don’t want to be anywhere close to Parathion! Its a very toxic material which has killed a lot of people.
I never herd of Fenitrothion, so I looked it up. The signal word for this material in the US is “caution” which is a lot safer than the “danger poison” label for Parathion.
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/dienochlor-glyphosate/fenitrothion-ext.html
BBT, Thanks for the link. I recall browsing it before, but wasn’t sure if I had the right chemical or not. I think we’ve confirmed this is the one I’m using.
Does the signal word used on the package change depending on the concentration? It seems to for the active ingredient in Sevin. “Caution” sounds promising.
VSOP, I know what you mean. It’s very confusing. That’s why asking for "real life "experiences on usage on a forum like this is very helpful for me.
I think some of the chemicals used here are not common in the States, but probably the type of chemical is, as Fruitnut mentioned, and someone here may have some experiences with that.
I’m slowly reading through the literature I can find on pesticides. Even if I read through all the literature, it’s not conclusive of safety for my usage. But that’s the nature of science in general. I’m shooting more for lesser of two evils.
I’m no expert on this stuff, but I have seen instances where the signal word changes depending on the concentration of the active ingredient or the formulation. Captan is an example where the signal word changes with different formulations. Captan 50% W is “warning” but Captan 4L is “danger”