How many here in the US have ‘Dar Sofiyivky’ with fruit this year?
Per the Persimmon World facebook group, it sounds like there is still uncertainty about if we have the authentic Dar Sofi. This is based on comments from Timothy Lane and all the investigation work he has done. It appears there are at least two scion types going around. They have different leaf shapes (a longer leaf version that looks more DV, and another that has a more kaki-esque leaf).
I imagine we need these to fruit to have any chance of telling what’s what. I’ve seen a few scatter posts of members showing small fruit on their Dar Sofiyivky grafts. Is anyone with fruit growing willing to share photos of what their leaves and developing fruit look like?
Also, sounds like there is some small chance that ‘V. Derevyanko’ could be the same as ‘Dar Sofiyivky’ so probably should keep an eye on that one too.
Are those photos recent? The V. Derevyenko link has been refuted, last I checked.
My Dar Sofiyivki tree decided to push just a small amount of growth this year, so the leaves are pretty small and like a seedling. It’s putting on a second flush now, so we’ll see what they do. Last year, most of them were more like type 2, which is more like what I’ve seen in videos from Ukraine. It had leaves of both types on the same tree. I’ve also found that some persimmon varieties can be highly variable on leaf shape based on how they’re feeling that year, so it’s not necessarily a good way to ID a variety.
He posted the photos yesterday, but I’m unsure when he took them.
Interesting point you made about the leaf shape variability. Another person on that fb post commented that he’s observed different leaf shape between full sun vs in a polytunnel.
Tim also posted a photo of a fruit he has on his slender leaf tree, and it does look round like a DV instead of the more square cross section of Dar Sofi, which isn’t promising. Hence, why I’m interested to see fruit from others growing it!
I mostly like what Tim does, but he has historically had a tendency to pass speculation off as certainty. Fortunately, he’s good about owning up when he realized he made a mistake, as seen here. He’s growing and experimenting with enough stuff that I think he will be a true authority one day. He just needs to temper his enthusiasm with some rigor.
Im convinced the Dar Sofiyivky that many of us have is not authentic. I shared scion with 4 or 5 people and i made sure to tell them i havent fruited it to know that it is authentic. Here are two photos of the DS compared to a Nakitas Gift and some Gora Goverla and you can see how tiny and round the fruit are. I have two trees of DS and they are 10-12 ft tall now so id expect full sized fruit. The shape is way off
from what id expect.
DS
That’s about what mine looked like last year. I’ll have to see if I can find it, but there was a diagnostic description from the original paper that describes the leaves, buds, new twig bark color, and lenticels. I recall mine seemed to be within range of the description, but not so much that it ruled other things out.
@Preston, your pictures are very different from the leaves and stems of the Dar Sofiyivkiy I received from Dax.
I expect we will have some pictures of fruit to compare with in a few more months. I cut so much scionwood off my tree for the last 2 years that it is just now forming enough structure to be able to make some fruit.
“I spent time watching videos also during researching trees and the Dar Sofiyivky in particular on a video I really liked to rewatch has pointed leaves like virginiana (and like my trees) where the source is Tim Lane of Massachusetts.”
So to reiterate, Dax got scions from Tim lane. I got a tree from Dax. I sent scions from my tree to about 25 people here on GF. To the best of my knowledge, the scions I sent trace back to Tim Lane. I can confirm the tree I have produces longer more slender leaves which appears to be correct based on the pictures from growers in Ukraine.
@Fusion_power
Dax was also my source for the DS scion. In Tim Lanes post the DS source-2 is the one i have and what is pictured above. Its very distinct from the other persimmons i grow so i can spot this one pretty easily.
Both of my trees have the same small circle shaped fruit.
Does your tree have any fruit this year? Can you share photos of the buds, stems and leaves?
And a side note just to be clear i knew Dax hadn’t fruited this variety back when he gave me scion so there are no hard feelings towards him at all. It happens.
