Hybrid Persimmons Future Look Great

Tony – That’s great to hear. When and if I can get my hands on Taishu, please let me know. I’ll grow it in a pot if I have to and then use it to pollinate my in-ground JT-02. But land is limited and the weather is random, so my chances of producing anything useful are small. But maybe something will come of a collective effort.

I’m 71 but in good health. I’d hope to be around to see at least 1 generation of a non-astringent hybrid. I’d be very happy if you or Dax or anyone else here succeeds.

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That is incorrect in the horticultural world.

As the saying goes, put your money where your mouth is and prove it.


<< Breeding involves the creation of multi-generation genetically diverse populations on which human selection is practiced to create adapted plants with new combinations of specific desirable traits. >>

My statement was not incorrect, it was just simplified. See above. The first part is the “crossing” and the second part is the “purpose.” If I left out anything it’s only the “human selection” which I think we all understood.

Again, this is childish. Can’t we talk about how best to do something without actually doing it ourselves?

But I tell you what – send me Taishu sticks and I’ll get started. I have potted DV seedlings warming up in the basement. They’ll be ready for grafting in a couple months.

I grew some diospyros texana, don’t know if that’s helpful or not. I wanted some as tubbed specimens in zone 6a, the seeds sprouted like garden beans with heat. Grew nicely, looked great until their roots touched bottom of pots, then died. My source by Rio Grande river said most of her desert seeds (diospyros texana, prunus texana, etc.) were like that, needed to have unrestricted root growth. Hope you have good luck.

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Note that C-PCA, J-PCA, etc. refer to different laboratories, not different species.

Taxon: Diospyros chinensis Blume, nom. nud.
Synonym of Diospyros kaki Thunb.


Thor X Rossy male fruit looks interesting. I need to cross this one with 400-5.




The parentage of male “Rossey F2” is well-defined.

Do you know if these names are its synonym?
Rossey Male
Rossy Male

This is a great question. I’d also like to know, more specifically, whether there is only one Rossey F2 or if the backcross of Rosseyanka x OP DV produced multiple male seedlings.

From what I remember is the original Rossyanka male. Then after that is Jerry Lehman Rossyanka male offspring OP
400-5. Then David L. also has OP of Rossyanka male offspring Rossey 2 that he crossed with Thor. I am still waiting for Cliff email to verify this.


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Does a persimmon preservation orchard exist in U.S. that’s owned by an institution, non-profit or government?

UC Davis has a genetic repository of Persimmons like Geneva does apples. As far as Americans and hybrids go there, the selection is piddly and sad. Pretty much all the persimmon enthusiasts here have more varieties than UCD. UCD’s focus is on Asian varieties, which they have an abundance of.

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Correct. Years ago I read somewhere that it was at UC Davis, and UC Davis falls out of my mouth when talking about it instead of just Davis. My brain has a hard time remembering that since their address listed is UC Davis too. Thanks for the link.

For anyone wanting something from their collection I will say from experience and reputation the program at Davis is much harder to get scions or cuttings from than Geneva. If you have your ducks in a row and a legitimate breeding plan Geneva will usually send material to backyard breeders. Davis will turn you down flat and refer you to extension offices and master gardener programs, most of whom don’t care at all about mulberries or American persimmons.

Unless something major has changed in the last two years, both UC Davis and NCGR have persimmon collections. The Davis Wolfskill orchards and NCGR collections are adjacent to each other and at least one year, NCGR was propagating kaki cultivars using Davis material to replace trees that had been lost from their collection.

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Their office and the UC Davis Farm Services office are located on the same Federal land grant parcel off-campus on Straloch Road. UC delivers the mail there.

That is not my experience nor of many other agriculturists I know – unless you are requesting something that is commercially available.

Wolfskill Orchards = land grant parcel in Winters CA, the eastern portion utilized by UC Davis investigators and the western & southern portions (across the Putah canal) by USDA.

The UC Davis administration (not the faculty and research staff) has chosen to create a hostile boundary between the UC operations and USDA operations on the property.

Regarding collections there, I do not recall seeing any fruit trees on the UC portion. They are primarily concerned with row crops at that site – having produced some famous cultivars.

The UC side is now mostly used for strawberry and almond breeding. There are still collections of walnuts, pistachios, and persimmon, however. I don’t know the extent to which these are replicated on the USDA side or the number of cultivars represented. They may just be old seedling populations. The persimmon grove there did/does have a few D. virginiana and a bunch of Asian cultivars though. There are some old avocados and citrus trees as well.

I conducted research on the USDA side a number of years ago and used to know a few of the people working for the UC and USDA both. It’s been a few years since the last time I’ve been, but as far as I know the UC fruit trees are still there.


Where were/are they located?


The persimmons are covered by the word “Experimental” in that photo. The dark green under the “E” is a group of (very large) avocado trees. The brown trapezoid on the right edge used to be walnuts, pistachios, and apricots. Now I think only the pistachios are left. The small green plots are mostly almond crosses that are constantly undergoing selection and replanting; some of the green is strawberries. I think the brown plots are rotated between strawberries and almonds.