A successful NA from the backcross would likely lead to continued crossing back into DV or hybrids to get more variety, which is fine as long as it works. With enough seedlings, you should be able to get a cold hardy hybrid with DV like flavor. The real question is how many seedlings? If just one single different genetic locus exists in DV that can override the effects of the PCNA gene, then the odds go way down. Instead of 1/16 NA female seedlings from your backcross, you would now be looking at 1/256. If I was trying to breed a NA hybrid, I would really try to get my hands on a dominant NA kaki as insurance. There is no guarantee that a dominant NA will work either, but at least you will find out with just a few seedlings.
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Hi Joe,
We still got Luo Tian Tian Shi to hybridize with. It (forgive my ignorance) carries something such as 5 of 6 of the genes (possible) for cold-hardiness. It’s late-ripening, but it’s very special I believe for producing a hybrid PCNA.
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@Barkslip – The gene in the Chinese PCNAs appears to be dominant. You are right to imply that the most direct route to a PCNA hybrid would be a cross between a Chinese PCNA and an American. HOWEVER it seems likely the initial cross between the Chinese Kaki and any Virginiana would be very difficult, requiring special techniques beyond the capabilities of normal humans. On the other hand, JT-02 [already a product of embryo rescue] would probably respond to pollination by Taishu by producing viable seed. So you or I or @ramv could perform the hybridization, produce the fruit, grow the seeds, etc. ourselves!
Can somebody supply more information? By “hybrid” I understand Kaki x Virginiana. Which hybrids are PCNA or PVNA?
When I use the term “PCNA hybrid” I DO NOT mean a hybridization that includes a PCNA parent. Ho Hum. I mean a hybridization that results in a PCNA offspring. Said as clearly as I can, the offspring is a Kaki x Virginiana hybrid that is itself non-astringent.
JT-02, I never considered virginiana again. It would be (either) JT-02 or JBT-06 x either Taishu or Liu Tian Tian Shi
Here:
I have every intention of putting it near several pollinator hybrids like Universal, Nikita’s daughter, Rosseyanka’s male mutation (who is a true original F1 as well) … to see what will come out of it.
When to taste … there is something for everyone. And who has said that this fruit is not good.
All the descendants are of excellent quality.
it is Luo TIAN TIAN SHI
says: @Arhus76
from:
@Barkslip – Maybe I’m dense but I don’t understand what this means. Can you translate in simple terms? Thanks.
Joe
Here is a graft of the last hybrid khaki sold last year before this modest war.
I’m willing to cut it in exchange for Lucy Rose.
A photo of the fruit that belongs to Derevienko.
It is a variety very resistant to cold.
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This persimmon it’s Adolf Lischuck
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what are the parents?
the parents are not known!
This is a selection from Derevienko’s research station in Ukraine. It was he who created Sosnovkaja, Tchoutchoupa, Kolhoznitza, Sofia’s gift…
Cold hardiness is given in the middle of pure Virginiana.
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Since Luo Tian Tian Shi is all female flowers (to my knowledge today, that is…)
Simple terms: bang JT-02 or JBT-06 with Taishu
And put Luo Tian Tian Shi into a room or landscape with pollen from a cold-hardy hybrid with male flowers such as Clifford England’s -22 male Rosseyanka or Jerry Lehmans -30 (ish) male Nikitskaya Bordovaya.
I’m saying this. Dax
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@Arhus76 – OK, so am I right that these trees are PCA (i.e., astringent) hybrids, like Nikita’s Gift? You said that there are PCNA and PVNA hybrids (non-astringent). Tell us more about those.
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Yes they are PCA.
I have 2 PCNA and 2 PCVA. No fruit yet, that says it all.
Information about the latest PCNAs in Crimea does not filter since it is Russian.
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When you say “I have 2 PCNA and 2 PCVA” (a) I assume you mean PVNA, and (b) I’m unsure whether you mean that these are possible hybrids, kaki x virginiana.
If these are possible hybrids, since there’s been no fruit I assume you have no proof that the fruit actually is non-astringent. Other people interpreted your statements to imply that there are PCNA and PVNA hybrids of kaki x virginiana in Europe and the U.S. It seems to me that this was a misinterpretation. So can you clarify? Are you aware of a confirmed K x V hybrid that is NA?
I hate to be this obtuse but often when you say “this says it all” the reality for most of us is that it doesn’t say enough.
Joe, he said too (Russia).
And yes, it’s as straightforward as possible…!
It makes so much sense to me that I can’t understand why you cannot understand. God believe it/Better Believe it.
This man above had 95, 96, etc- cultivars that you hit the like button (for empathy) at wild boars destroying around 75 of them completely!
I’m going to comment once more about our friend. It’s very likely that he doesn’t comment because taste is subjective. He just grafted them. He can only relate what others say.
Dax
Dax – From what I read above, the claim is that there are PCNA and PVNA hybrids of kaki x virgininana in Russia, the EU and/or the U.S. But the parents are not known?
I’ll make it simple for you – no Russian! – what are the names of the two PVNA hybrids in the EU / US?
there’s my answer. and he says (to your point Joe) (and to my not reading carefully enough) that there are two more PVNA here in the US.
Since you, myself, and this conversation is leaning towards breeding a hybrid PCNA, the two PVNA in the USA are going to be ‘Coffee Cake’ or ???
(I don’t know the two already here. Maybe one is Coffee Cake?)
Arthus says:
“You have 2 PCNA hybrids in Russia in Nikita’s garden.”
And he has (2) PCNA hybrids already grafted.
I don’t know Joe. That’s my reading of the situation you’re asking him about.
I’m sorry if there’s a piece of the pizza missing so to speak. I’m putting together a lot of pieces from the same (2) links above I left up there for you to (gather) what I’m putting-together let’s say.
From this point forward, you can piece together more of what I’m doing already:
At Arthus is talking a lot in a short reading distance via this link.