That would be difficult. Not the easy way. Training and pruning are almost always going to be easier and better. Better in that pruning, especially heavy pruning, will cause new growth that can usually be used to fill out the trees form.
Big cuts elicit vigorous growth. Vigorous growth is the best way to form a new scaffold. It just needs to be headed in the correct direction or trained that way.
Good to have on record. I like to fuss, so would try to rehab the tree shape that way.
@Asvmac in case you or anyone else is interested, here is some funky training I’ve done to a reasonably young peach tree.
Here’s a before and after pruning pic I took today of this tree. The second photo is much later in the evening and the sun was going down, so the quality is poor.
But the story behind this tree is that there were minimal scaffolds to select at the height I wanted. There was only one scaffold going one direction, and everything was dead above it. I chose that scaffold with the thought of making that one scaffold into two scaffolds going opposite directions, by choosing shoots going opposite directions.
I did indeed get two shoots going opposite directions on that scaffold (one shoot going north and one going south). I pruned everything else off to turn those shoots into scaffolds. After the next year (I think) I decided that the crotch angles were really terrible on the two shoots/scaffolds going north and south. I thought it would eventually split the tree once it carried a heavy crop load.
Soooo…, I ended up cutting the south shoot (now big enough to be called a scaffold) so that now the tree was back to one scaffold (again).
Today I found a better shoot facing south, so I cut everything else away except the north facing scaffold and a relatively small south facing shoot (with the intent to later make that shoot into a scaffold).
In the end you can see a tree which has this weird horizontal plane and looks terribly unbalanced. But with care, and observation, the tree will very likely eventually balance out with the two scaffolds (one facing north, the other facing south - and will eventually fill in all the empty spaces). Three scaffolds is ideal for a vase shaped peach tree, but two scaffolds will also work.
Here are the before/after pics.
In the after pic below, you can’t see it very well, but there is only one small shoot facing south that I left to eventually become a scaffold. You can get a pretty close up view by left clicking on the picture and left clicking again on the pop up picture.
Dear Graft,
I might mention that with your next peach tree, you might want to avoid placing it next to a south facing wall, if possible.
It’s a misnomer to think a peach tree will receive frost protection by placing it near a south facing wall. Actually the opposite is true. The south facing wall will generate heat during the days (when the sun is more in the southern sky) to cause the peach tree to wake up sooner, bloom sooner, and thereby making it more susceptible to spring frosts.
The idea that the south facing wall will somehow protect it against spring frosts simply isn’t true. Spring frosts almost always occur in the very early morning hours when the sun is just peeping up over the horizon. By that time the wall has long lost any residual radiant heat and the sun peeking up over the horizon doesn’t have any chance of heating the wall up to produce any radiant heat.
The myth of planting trees against a south facing wall to protect against frost has been repeated over and over in books and articles, but it has no basis in experience or legitimate scientific experimentation. It does more harm than good.
I agree that a south-facing wall is not ideal for preventing spring frosts, primarily because it encourages early blooming; but it does provide some protection from the coldest temperatures overnight. I have hardy and fuzzy kiwis growing against the south wall of our house, and they have never been bothered by the arctic air blasts that we get in southwestern BC, Canada.
I’ve seen proof of the protective affects of a south wall during the last 3 winters here, especially during the winter of 2021/2022. I had 32 seedling Feijoa bushes planted all over my back yard that winter, and the temperature got down to -13C. All of the Feijoas planted away from the south-facing back of our house were killed either down to their very bases or close to that point, except the two planted about 10 ft from the back of our house. Both of these lost a few leaves, but most branches survived. One of them even had a single healthy blossom, which was the first blossom on any of the Feijoas that I planted.
Thanks indeed thats what is in many books written. Good to know that that can actually make thing more difficult instead of easy.thing is that were are talking about real late spring frost, which are devastating for the fruitgrowers in my area.Like in three weeks from now. Thats when i need a southfacing wall. Grabbed a little new article about cherries from last years frost.
2023 is one of the worst years in recent memory," stated Johan Sonneveld of the industry consulting firm, Fruitconsult, commenting on the state of the cherry harvest.
Sonneveld pointed out that “in Betuwe, where the majority of cherry growers are located, the harvest volumes are down by 50 to 60 percent.” This situation has been confirmed by Erik Vernooij, a cherry grower from De Kersenhut in Cothen, located in the province of Utrecht. Owning 16 hectares of cherry trees, Vernooij said, “My father has been in this business for 45 years, and he has never experienced anything like this.”
Erik Vernooij mainly attributes the current problems to the severe frost in March.
I have 3 cherry trees and had 4 cherries to eat😂 could have been more but in didnt even bother putting birdnetting last year.
My last peaches that are orchard grown on pasture without any southfacing wall made great blossom that, and then in late march everything would be frosted off. One of those two had leafcurl😔 so is removed but the other one is blossoming this year, with a good forecast ahead, though in cross my fingers for the upcoming weeks.
So for me its worth trying it out having both the options available .And also that i want to lead the tree along the wall for ornamental purposes. On the other hand am i worried for the autum/winter period. I hope the wall doesnt make my peach go dormant to late. I try to post its evolution the coming years;)
I’m not sure what isn’t ideal about it in terms of what its ultimate shape will be. There is a shoot coming off what appears to be the most dominant branch emanating from that scaffold pointing away from the wall. Use that to make a third scaffold by cutting everything else off of it, keep the other two that will most evenly divide the pie and you will have a fine peach tree with a crook.
If any of the scaffolds develop inverted bark at the union with the trunk, it may need support for at least its first crop but for someone who isn’t growing hundreds of trees it shouldn’t be hard to manage it. Hell, it used to be a common tactic of commercial growers to tie a rope around the three scaffolds of their V shaped trees just tight enough to stop them from breaking off from the heavy load of fruit. I guess the branch-trunk unions were not at risk at all with that method.
I wish I could get 1" diameter trees bare root, like I used to, I could sell them as 2.25- 2.5" diameter bearing age trees a year sooner. Of course, I’m not starting my permanent scaffolds close to the ground like you are and first branches on my trees don’t start below 4’ so mowers can get under them, I can apply squirrel baffles and deer won’t reach most of the fruit.
Some of my customers want perfectly straight trunks but some, like me, don’t mind some character in their trees. I have read of trees purposely grown at a slant like that commercially to deal with the prominent wind. I can’t remember if the tactic was to have the tree facing the wind or away from it, however as I don’t live in a region with exceptionally strong winds, as a rule.
Some growers spread branches by tying them to horizontal, which is best, but some just prune branches to outward shoots. I do a little of both and get away with the less laborious method without many branches breaking from the weight of fruit. What I hate most about branches with excessive diameter is how difficult it is to spread them to horizontal without splitting them via the tying method. Sometimes I cut a hinge into an overly stiff and oversized scaffold tie some heavy string around the base of the trunk with enough length to loop it around the branch and pull it to a more horizontal position, but it get time consuming with all the other chores in any given orchard I manage. It’s much quicker just to prune to a lower more horizontal shoot.
As they say, there are many roads to Rome and every skilled worker builds their own road. That’s why experts often disagree.
I probably should have mentioned, I think there is a difference between a south facing wall and the south side of a house. A house is heated in the wintertime so there should be some radiant heat all the time. I know we have a thermometer on the south side of our house under the front deck, and it registers about 3 degrees warmer than the north side.
I could also envision the ground being warmer on the south side of the house, which would give off more radiant heat in the wee part of the morning.
It’s probably an excellent place to locate tender plants, bushes, small trees, especially if one is more concerned with survival of the plant and not so worried about the warmer micro climate teasing out blooms earlier.
I had assumed the OP wanted more of a pedestrian tree based upon her lamentation that there was only one scaffold branch (else why not just pick a vertical branch and go on up with the tree and let it produce all the scaffolds it wants?)
But my comments were also more generic meant for a general audience, so it’s fair for you to respond or disagree.
I know your business is based on providing bearing age trees to a niche market, sort of exclusive clientele, but I wonder how many people on the forum prefer tall peach trees vs. people who prefer pedestrian peach trees?
If I had to guess, I would estimate folks on this forum (who actually try to manage their peach trees) prefer pedestrian height peach trees 9 to 1 over tall peach trees. But that’s just a guess based on comments and pictures, not on any real survey.
The benefits of hand thinning, picking, and pruning from the ground are significant. In fact, I hardly know how folks are able to do those tasks on a ladder (although I know you do).
It is possible to have a pedestrian peach tree and still not have any scaffolds start below 4’ (by training it as a sort of weeping tree) but that involves more management. I’ve done it once with a peach tree, and never again.
I’ve done a lot of tying peach branches down and notching branches to make a hinge. Very effective method of training. We just don’t have time to do that anymore. It’s much faster to prune the peach tree to train it. But bending branches is a good tool for a backyard orchard, or someone like you whose business model is predicated on the quickest possible fruit production.
There may be some commercial peach orchards who bend branches to train, but I’m going to go out on a limb (again) and say 9 to 1 use pruning as their tree training method vs. bending branches. And again not based on any real survey, just my causal observation.
I know of one orchard sort of in my area (about 100 miles away) who plants peach trees at a slant. They face them toward the north with the thought that strong south winds will sort of blow a direction more tangent with the trunk. I think it’s bunk myself.
Blow overs are caused by very wet soil, then a strong wind. I’ve seen plenty of strong north winds blow trees south when the soil is saturated. We’ve never had a complete blow over (another plus for pedestrian height peach trees). But, last season we had one of our worst blow overs where a couple trees blew over enough that I had to cut a good chunk of a scaffold off because it was almost on the ground, and also cut off the higher parts of the opposite scaffold because it was sticking up too vertical. These were trees that hadn’t been pruned aggressively enough and were getting too tall.
Once the trees get more age, they get anchored good and nothing but a tornado will blow them over.
I don’t need a ladder to do any thinning or pruning on most of the peach trees I manage. I use a lopper for a lot of it but most of a tree I can reach with my hand pruners. At this point, I’m about 5’10". I don’t train to a cone shape, the branches are almost or completely horizontal.
There are a lot of rural people on this forum who have to deal with coons, deer and squirrels and also have grass right up to the base of their trees. For all of these reasons a decent length of trunk before first branches could be advantageous.
That said, most of the advice I gave was similar to fruitnut for the specific question. Someone that considers a straight trunk very important ascetically might want to start over, but for other people it would be pointless to waste the time and money. .
@Olpea When you notch branches to make a hinge/change the angle, do you usually relieve the top or bottom surface?
I’ve got an apricot that I chose poorly at the nursery, it has a tight crotch between two semi-leaders and not much for lower limbs. I’m wondering if I can notch one of the “leaders” and bend it over to open up the crotch angle. It would at the same time bring the tree into a nice open center form.
The right answer would almost always be to cut out one leader. Then head back the remainder to form your open center scaffolds. A picture might change that assessment.
@fruitnut
Here’s a photo. I’ve saved some smaller limbs toward the bottom, but they’re nearly dead and basically devoid of buds except a few at the tip. The tree has low vigor, and nearly all the leaves last year were up high at the tips of the branches. There’s some scarring on the undersides of the limbs so I think it had a rough go in transport at one point in its life. I learned a lot about selecting fruit trees right after I bought and planted this one 
Overall, I want to reduce the height, as it’s a backyard tree and the leafy bits are already 6-7 feet high. But the lack of buds down around the crotch area is why I’m reluctant to just prune it hard. My latest thought is to bend and stake the main three branches down to a 45 degree angle. The one with the green arrow below is the one that would maybe be a candidate for aggressive notching?
I’m open to pretty radical suggestions. I have some scionwood from known productive apricot trees in the neighborhood that I could graft on somewhere. I’ve considered chip budding to try to get new lower scaffolds off the main trunk. I’ve also considered a big heading cut below everything to see if it’ll sprout new buds below the cut
You’re right to be concerned about how much growth you will get with a drastic heading cut. If you cut off everything it might not push from the low trunk. At the minimum I’d cut off the twin leader going left. And then head back the three remaining big shoots to 12-18 inches of growth. That should get vigorous regrowth that can be pruned/trained into a good tree.
The lack of vigor is a concern. It may need more water and fertilizer.
Thanks. I’m up north so I have about a month left to figure out what to do. It got regular watering it’s first year (last year), but i have not fertilized.
You could spread the tree out instead of heading. If you do, I’d still recommend taking out that tight crotch. Spread the remainder out and head back to 2-3ft.
You’re better off with fewer good scaffolds rather than having a weak spot.
It’s been a while since I’ve grown apricots. All but a couple varieties bloom too early for this area. I think Fruitnut has given the same advice I would, except I might add one thing.
Apricots, like plums, are much more prone to throw out adventitious buds compared to peach trees. What that means is that if you get the tree growing vigorously and prune the tree heavily, you will very likely see the tree throwing out new shoots down low from which you can select scaffolds.
You are correct that higher up growth suppresses lower growth, as the suppressive hormones travel down.
The tree obviously has some vigor problems if you are only getting leaves at the tips of branches.
Part of the issue may be that there is not enough sunlight. Apricots like full sun even more than peaches. As I recall, they will abort shaded growth more than peaches.
Another issue is too much water, depending on the rootstock. Manchurian apricot rootstock will tolerate water logged soil even less than seedling peach rootstocks. So, it’s very easy to overwater apricots on apricot roots. Or the soil may just be too wet.
Apricots are almost a desert tree, that’s why they will tolerate alkaline soils. When you think desert, you think full sun, and not a lot of water.
Lastly, occasionally, some nurseries will put apricots on plum roots. This reduces the vigor of the trees substantially. If you plan to put in another apricot, make sure it’s on apricot roots. You might even consider looking for one which is on peach roots. Apricots on peach roots increases vigor (something like 120% as I recall). If you can’t find one on peach roots, you can always grow peach seedlings and graft apricots on top of them (something I’ve done). Just make sure you replant the graft union below the soil line. It probably gets pretty cold in your part of MT and you don’t want the cold weather to kill your peach roots. It might not even hurt to pile leaves up around the base an apricot tree on peach roots every year before winter sets in.
As Fruitnut mentions, add some fertilizer and see if you can get that tree moving. If the tree has vigor as low as you describe, where leaves are only at the tips of shoots, then you’re not ever going to get any material fruit production from it anyway.
If I were you, I’d try to get some vigor going then prune it down to the lowest portion that is still healthy and pushing some leaves. If it starts to show some vigor, you should see it start to push adventitious shoots below where you make the cut.
Thanks for the thorough response, much appreciated and very educational.
I do think lack of sunlight was an issue- I actually moved the tree this last fall after it went dormant, to this spot which has better sun.
I live in a pretty dry area generally but I do have clayey soils, especially where the apricot was initially planted, so that could have been retaining a bit excess water. I mixed more compost in when I moved it so hopefully it will be draining a little better.
Added some fertilizer yesterday.
The note about peach roots is interesting. I’ll keep that in mind if I decide to just replace the tree.
Cheers
I have a similar problem with two peach trees. I contacted the University of Maryland Agricultural Extension and they told me not to be afraid to make a couple drastic cuts. That was 3-4 months ago, and the trees seem to be growing despite my cuts.
As spring approaches I got a little bud swelling lower down on that apricot, which gave me the courage to make some cuts back to that original crotch and remove the competing leader entirely. I’m optimistic about it.
Can I trouble y’all for one more? I just got this Contender peach and pruned it back to open center, but the main scaffolds are at about 36", and especially for this tree which is in the main backyard area near the house, I’d like it to be lower, 24-28". This was a bare root tree, 1-1/4" caliper, no active buds below the main scaffolds, and the branches are pretty well spaced with nice angles. Should I cut it back to the desired height anyways?
Thanks in advance!
