Jujubes- Our New Adventure

[BobVance]

Fresh jujubes should all be crisp, more or less, if they have received enough water.

That bucks conventional wisdom, as there are some jujubes which are classed as for drying, rather than for fresh eating. I take it that some of the 40-50 cultivars that you’ve grown are classed as for drying?

It doesn’t matter how much water a different jujube tree needed because every tree is different.

One of my examples was actually from the same tree- the main part was So and a graft was Shanxi Li. Though you could have meant that one cultivar’s fruit needs more water than another, regardless if they share the same root system.

It is something I will keep a closer eye on. I’ve been watering most of the jujube at my house this year, so I may need to compare fruit quality from here vs that from un-watered sites.

[Luisport]

Thai Milk-Jujube (Ziziphus mauritiana)

[mamuang]

@Luisport,
The name in Thai is Fresh Milk, a very popular variety.

[castanea]

Jujubes that are classified for drying are simply regular crisp jujubes that dry well and taste good when dried. I’m not sure how my post bucks any wisdom. Some dried jujubes taste great when fresh and some don’t. Sihong is very good fresh or dried. Black Sea is excellent fresh or dried. Orange Beauty is excellent fresh or dried. See this list from NMSU that lists many cultivars that are good when eaten fresh or dried:

https://aces.nmsu.edu/jujube/multipurpose.html

Even if a jujube is primarily consumed as dried, it should still be crisp if eaten as a fresh fruit.

[Robert]

Who sells potted jujubes?

[BobVance]

See this list from NMSU that lists many cultivars that are good when eaten fresh or dried

True, but they also have a page specifically for those used at least primarily for drying:
https://aces.nmsu.edu/jujube/drying.html

In fact, I see that 3 of the cultivars are explicitly labeled as “not suitable for fresh eating”. So while Shanxi Li may just need extra water to get crisp, water may not be enough to make some varieties crisp. I think I had a sample from one such variety, Zhang Huang Da 4 years ago (another graft on the So), which was very dry (much more than the Shanxi Li).

Jujube fruit set if you don't have hot dry summers

I was looking over the tree and found the ZHD graft. It had a single fruit on it, which has just reached 70% brown (normally, just what I shoot for). [image] Here is a pic of it, with some So for comparison. [image] This year, Honey Jar has been a level above the So for fresh eating. So is at least 1, maybe 2 levels above the ZHD. It was very dense and dry, with only mild sweetness. Maybe next time I’ll see if I can get it to dry. One other note- my So weren’t as good this year as last…

I think both Scott and I may have had a similar experience with Huping (one of the ones on the NMSU drying page).

But I definitely recognize that even in my area some extra water may be needed to ensure good texture. In the above link(almost 4 years ago), I said:

One other note- my So weren’t as good this year as last. Then, we had a day of rain last week. The fruit I picked in the day or two after the rain were much crisper and juicier- very tasty. I think I need to irrigate when they get close to ripe if we go a while without rain.

Who sells potted jujubes?

Just Fruits and Exotics
Edible Landscaping

I think Burnt Ridge and One green world sometimes sell small (1 gal) ones. But for me, the small ones take a very long time to establish.

[Luisport]

Thanks!

[lilke]

People thanks for your help.

Grafting is something that takes a bit of practice to get good (or at least OK) at.

I know. I’m grafting for several years and now I’m pretty good at it. With cherries, plums, pears, apples and persimmons I have success rate over 90%. Those fruit I primarily graft for now.

That could have been his issue, if the wood was actively growing when he cut it. But I wanted to mention that it is possible to cut and graft at once

Both trees was just started to break buds, they were swollen. That time I didn’t want to do the grafts (I had my foot immobilized, and I couldn’t walk without support of the stakes) but I can’t pick the time except to do it when is it time.
I did several times grafts like that in the past with great success. Cause i receive some scion wood at the spring and then when I cut branches on the rootstock-mother tree for grafting I regraft those cutted ones to another tree. To the more established one, so I can have more wood growth the same year. Primarily I do that with persimmons so I can give scion wood to my friends so we can have enough number of varieties in case that something happens to mother tree. After all it’s not so easy for me to get scionwood, plants are even harder to get here. After all those cuted branches will be thrown away so why don’t I try? there is nothing to lose only to get.
With jujubes I made 2-3 grafts of each scion wood, with 2 different techniques. That way I expected to have at least 1 successful graft of each variety. But nothing from that, and I know how hard was for me to do those grafts. After that I saw that my spinosa rootstocks are also dead, later I figured out what is the problem, so this year is bad when I spoke about jujubes.

Also, I think you over-fertilize your tree

Oooh no no. I’m waiting 2-3 yrs now to have more wood I need more branches for grafting and for give away
I’ll support them.
Again thanks.

[Nfg831_Z6b]

Edible Landscaping. I bought four from them this year, extremely impressed with the size and quality.

[Robert]

Someone else posted a pretty impressive pict of one they bought from them. They are out of stock on just about everything though with no future dates. Also, I noticed they raised their shipping prices and it is quite a bit now. About 50 cents on the dollar.

[Nfg831_Z6b]

I preordered mine and picked them up a month or so ago. I live nearby so I don’t have them ship, just pickup.
-Nick

[castanea]

Yes, there are jujubes that are better dried than eaten fresh. The NMSU “drying” page simply lists cultivars that are commonly perceived as better when dried than when eaten fresh. Nowhere on that page does it say that these fruits do not get crisper when given more water. Nowhere on that page does it say that they do not need adequate water for full flavor development. Many of the cultivars on that page are also eaten fresh. Don Polenski is listed on the drying list and does produce a very good dried fruit, but the fruit still tastes better fresh than dried, and it still gets crisp if you give it adequate water.

Jujubes that will eventually be used used for drying will get crisp if given adequate water. Both Lang and Globe are primarily used for drying, but both get very crisp if given enough water, and both can be eaten fresh. They just don’t don’t have enough flavor for fresh eating. Adequate water is still needed for full flavor development even in jujubes that will later be dried.

I don’t even know where your disagreement with me lies. What statement have I made that you disagree with?

You appear to think that fruits used for drying cannot go through a crisp stage when fresh. If so, that is incorrect. You seem to think that crispness is the factor that distinguishes dried jujubes from fresh eating jujubes. It is not. Maybe you’re thinking that fruits that will be used for drying don’t need to be given adequate water, and don’t need to become crisp before being dried. My experience is that jujube flavors, sweetness and crispness are all enhanced by adequate water in most cultivars, so if you want full development of flavor and sweetness in your dried fruit, give them more water.

[mamuang]

@castanea,
When you said water more, how do you decide when to water for in ground trees? (I believe many of your trees were in pots when you were in CA).

Where I live, when we complain about dry, it usually mean no rain for 10 -14 days. Our dry condition is nonwhere near CA’s.

I’ve watered my jujbes trees more often these past two years. When there is no rain for over two weeks, I water my trees generously (let the hose at the base of the trees for 15-20 mins.

I had no fruit from Shanxi Li these past two years. I see that it has set several fruit this year. I hope to find out if the texture will improve.

Even before I’ve watered jujubes more, my HJ and SC that are next to Shanxi Li and received the same no water treatment, were crispy/crunchy while Shanxi (at that time) was drier (I called it spongy).

[BobVance]

You appear to think that fruits used for drying cannot go through a crisp stage when fresh. If so, that is incorrect.

Agreed- I know that there are multi-purpose jujube, so they can definitely be crisp before being dried.

You seem to think that crispness is the factor that distinguishes dried jujubes from fresh eating jujubes. It is not.

I disagree on this one. At least, if it isn’t crisp, that puts it into the drying category. To me, crisp/crunch is the primary factor in making jujubes for fresh eating, just like for apples. If an apple is generally soft/mushy/mealy/dry off a tree, it would be for processing, not fresh use. I can see how there could be edge scenarios where something is crisp, but still not suitable for fresh eating (like a cider apples with astringency), but the correlation between texture and fresh-eating is pretty strong. Now, if you are saying that crisp jujube can be dried, sure they can (see multipurpose above).

My experience is that jujube flavors, sweetness and crispness are all enhanced by adequate water in most cultivars, so if you want full development of flavor and sweetness in your dried fruit, give them more water.

I’m not anywhere near as fond of dried jujubes as fresh ones, so I’ve generally avoided varieties classed as drying only (not that there are that many of them). But, your assertion that they need similar water to fresh ones makes sense and I will keep it in mind whenever I grow for drying.

I don’t even know where your disagreement with me lies. What statement have I made that you disagree with?

I’m a bit skeptical that drying varieties get crisp like fresh-eating varieties. Based on my past experience, the crispness of fruit seems at least partially based on the variety. Crisp variety can be made bad through lack of water, but I’m less confident that non-crisp varieties can be made crisp with more water. But, you have more experience growing jujubes successfully than I do, so I want to keep an open mind and see if I can replicate the same behavior.

In fact, next time Chinese Red Date has trees in stock (I tried to order a week ago and they were out for 2021), I’ll include a pure-drying variety to have a good test subject (rather than just Shanxi Li, which is in theory a fresh-eating cultivar).

Please don’t take my skepticism as a rejection or an attack. I actually find it useful to hear things which don’t match my expectations, as it means there is more for me to explore.

[jujubemulberry]

as i see it, fresh-eating and dry-eating varieties is a matter of chinese semantics or personal preference. There is hardly any science to it. Sugarcane is quite crisp even in our torrid summers, but i prefer it as dried dates.
HJ actually makes excellent dried dates, if only they were bigger.

experience growing jujubes successfully than I do, so I want to keep an open mind and see if I can replicate the same behavior.

lang is supposedly to be eaten as dried dates, i agree with @castanea that it can be crisp when eaten fresh.
he and i have fairly similar growing conditions, although mine is a bit extreme, which maybe helps validate his findings

[mamuang]

Raf,
How often do you water your in ground jujubes in Las Vegas?

[jujubemulberry]

every day or every other day, depending on when trees start looking ‘sad’

the longest have had(due to personal emergency) without watering was 3 days in >110F weather and the trees survived.
my trees are bigger now, and i presume it migth be stealing from neighbors’ yards. I still water them though-- at my whimsical terms lol

[BobVance]

Has anyone in moister climates noticed any difference in fruiting based on how well drained the soil is? For the last 3 years, this tree has been my strongest producer per size. And last year, it produced as much or more than a tree that is 1 year older and 5-10X the size.

I got this Sugar Cane from Burnt Ridge in 2012, but kept it in a fabric pot for a few years. Then planted the pot into the ground in 2014.

Part of it’s fruitfulness is likely the varieties grafted on, particularly Bok Jo.

But, all the varieties on this tree (5 total) are producing well, so I’ve been trying to see if there is anything else about it that I can emulate.

I’ve got 2 more spots opening up, as I got tired of a couple plums black knot and non-productiveness. If it was just the un-productiveness, I would graft over it. But I keep losing grafts when either the graft or (more often) the scaffold supporting it) gets knot(s). So, I’ve removed it and ordered a couple jujube trees from Bob Wells nursery.

They sell them in 5 gal pots, so I’m thinking about up-potting one into a larger fabric pot and planting it the same way as the above Sugar Cane. Then for comparison purposes, maybe plant the other on a slight mount, made of well draining soil. The spots are pretty accessible by hose (near the potted plants in the driveway), so I should be able to water them as needed.

It’s a bit of a shot in the dark, but I figure if it did well once, then maybe it is something I can replicate. Minus the 2+ years the original spent in a pot…

[jujubemulberry]

soil condition is definitely a variable, but rootstock adaptability/vigor are also things to consider as not all seedlings are created equal(as rootstock or as individual plants). Especially in out-of-zone areas. Anyway, if you plant several juju seeds in one pot at the same time, you’d notice that within a few months, there will always be one that is taller and thicker in caliper, one that might be more precocious, and one that might be runty, or a combination of possible permutations.

if you’re up to it, maybe poach a root cutting or two from this tree’s rootstock and see if it might be the m7 apple rootstock equivalent that tolerates waterlogging, etc.

[BobVance]

if you’re up to it, maybe poach a root cutting or two from this tree’s rootstock

It’s my most productive jujube tree, so I think I’ll avoid yanking at it’s roots for now

But, I will be sure to harvest any suckers I see coming up from near it. So far though, I don’t think it has produced any. In a way, I guess that makes it good as well. Just not convenient to replicate.