Jujubes- Our New Adventure

[castanea]

Mu was good. When it first started setting fruit, the fruit was forgettable but as the tree got older, the fruit got better and better. I wish I still had it. I had the same situation with China Yellow. It started out mediocre but as the tree got older the fruit got better and better.

I had a photo of a partially shriveled Honey Jar fruit because that’s all I could find. The fruit had a shelf life on the tree of about 15 minutes. If you woke up at 7 am and rushed out to the HJ tree, you might find a crispy one and when you could, they were pretty good, so I do know why people like them (but still not nearly as good as Black Sea), but if you waited until 7:30am, they would all be shriveled. I had that tree for years and it always set too much fruit that it could not ripen. I have two HJ trees here in Missouri and they are exactly the same. I will probably top work them next year to something better, which will be just about anything else.

I had problems with Li shriveling for years but eventually was able to water it enough to get superb crisp fruit. I never reached that point with HJ. And HJ fruit is so small anyway, that it’s not worth the extra effort. I can compare Black Sea to HJ and when I do, BS also sets large numbers of smaller fruit. The difference is that BS does not shrivel its fruit no matter how heavy the fruit load is. It takes days for a BS fruit to start drying out. Which brings me to the fruit quality. Dried BS fruits are in a different league than dried HJ fruits. Dried BS fruits are superb, among the best of all dried jujubes. Dried HJ fruit are edible, and that’s about all I can say about them. I would rather have one Black Sea tree than 10 HJ trees.

[BobVance]

@castanea

I had problems with Li shriveling for years but eventually was able to water it enough to get superb crisp fruit. I never reached that point with HJ.

I think that may be a big part of the difference- here, when HJ is ripening, the soil never really dries out. It’s getting pretty cool by October, so one rainstorm will keep things moist until the next. I had figured that Missouri would be pretty moist in fall as well- do you think it is because Honey Jar ripens when it is still hot out?

@castanea

And HJ fruit is so small anyway, that it’s not worth the extra effort

Normal HJ are small, but big enough for me (a mouthful, like a cherry). And they are like less effort here, compared to some of the large fruited ones which seemed to wrinkle more easily and needed more water this summer.

@castanea

I had that tree for years and it always set too much fruit that it could not ripen.

My HJ trees have always managed to ripen everything, but there were a few times it was close. That was when there was a 2nd flush of truit on the tree. The first batch would ripen fine, then the 2nd one (setting in late August or September) would just be ripening in late October with the first frost approaching. Those fruit would sometimes be much smaller than the main crop. The colder weather probably sent some sort of signal that it should finish ripening things quick. As well as being smaller, they generally weren’t as sweet- low 20’s brix vs high 20’s and 30’s. Still, they weren’t bad- I enjoyed eating them, even if they weren’t as good as the earlier ones. They still had good crisp juicy texture- HJ always seems to, at least in my area.

I’ve only had one really productive Black Sea tree, so my experience there is more limited (vs over a dozen HJ). But, I have a couple more BS (Russia #2) joining it this year.

@castanea

I had the same situation with China Yellow.

I’ll probably see if I can get some Mu from Cliff this winter. I don’t see China Yellow on his lists though. Is this one you still have?

[mamuang]

My Sugar suffered the worst cracking from the last down pour. 80% of the fruit cracked. The cracking areas of the fruit were softened making the fruit less crunchy, less appealing texture.

The browner fruit tasted sweeter so I stopped picking the greener ones. and I let them all turn brown before picking.

[tonyOmahaz5]

Here in Omaha my Honey Jar fruits are much larger than @castanea Honey fruit. I got my HJ scion from Scott maybe 9 plus years ago. Plus my Hj trees get watered every other day from my lawn springlers. I never had any issues wrinkled fruits or super small fruits and always stayed super crunchy and juicy. Some of the larger HJ almost a quarter size that I compare to Sugarcane in the past with photo on previous posts. So water the jujube well and location of growing environment makes difference.

Tony

[castanea]

I do not have China Yellow. I got it directly from Roger many years ago along with China Orange. I gave CY to a couple of people before I left CA. I think Mamuang may have it. It has a fairly distinctive looking fruit, almost heart shaped with a reddish/purple color.

I was trying to figure out why HJ annoys me so much and I think it’s because I had Black Sea first and I was expecting HJ to be just like BS, because superficially they have many similarities. They both have heavy production of small sweet fruit. But BS always matured the fruit, was better tasting fruit etc. HJ just always compared unfavorably to BS so in my mind HJ is an inferior fruit and always will be. Honey Jar fruit also cracks here when it rains. BS does not.

[mamuang]

I have a graft of “China Yellow” from you. However, until it fruit and verify by you, I am not 100 % sure if I have it correctly labeled.

Re. Honey Jar, it should be concluded that it does not perform well in a hot, dry condition like CA.

My 3 trees HJ, SC and Shanxi Li are grown in the exactly same condition and have received the same treatment, With the drought followed by a downpour last week. SC cracked like mad. Not a single HJ or Shanxi Li have cracked.

Like @tonyOmahaz5 said, not all HJ are small. Some are almost as big as SC esp. the first flush. They remain crunchy after turning totally brown. That’s why it is a favorite among my friends and neighbors.

I tried Black Sea from my graft. It was nice but the sample was too small. Glad you like it a lot.

[tonyOmahaz5]

@castanea my potted self root Orange Beauty fruits are pretty large because I watered them daily while watering the figs. I am still trying to figuring out the parentage. Hopefully you can remember the parentage since you crossed it.

[BobVance]

@mamuang

My Sugar suffered the worst cracking from the last down pour. 80% of the fruit cracked.

I’ve been checking the various Sugar Cane trees and have looked at 6 different sites with Sugar Cane. In general, the heavier setting trees are the ones with very few cracked.

One slightly cracked fruit in this pic:

This is almost half the fruit from this tree which was transplanted this past spring. Almost all fruit cracked:

So, to avoid cracking, just make sure your trees are loaded with fruit Yes, I know…not very helpful…

And, it may not just be that a tree divides the water among a greater number of fruits. A heavy set could delay ripening a bit and fruit which is further from ri[e is much less likely to crack. That would also explain why there wasn’t much cracking at the site with a lot of shade- even without a heavy set, the shade delays ripening a bit. On the other hand, the pic above with the cracked fruit is on a light setting (this year) tree with almost dawn to dusk sun, so the fruit was pretty far along.

I wonder if one of the reasons that Li gets so big is that it is a light setter. Honey Jar is like an Asian pear that has never been thinned- it wouldn’t surprise me if we could increase fruit size by knocking some off…

Of course, on the same tree, one of the heavier setting branches is leaning into the tenant parking area. Hopefully they don’t knock the fruit off…

@castanea

China Yellow…has a fairly distinctive looking fruit, almost heart shaped with a reddish/purple color.

Those are some nice looking fruit.

@mamuang

However, until it fruit and verify by you, I am not 100 % sure if I have it correctly labeled.

No fruit this year? I think just about everything has fruit for me, at least a little. Even GA866 and the other day I saw a Vegas Booty for the first time (and not just while browsing the net). I’m surprised that it has taken this long to set a single fruit, after it has done well for Raf in a partly shaded location…

@mamuang

Not a single HJ or Shanxi Li have cracked.

I’m pretty sure I’ve had both of those crack for me in the past. They just weren’t ripe enough yet this storm. Maybe next one…

@tonyOmahaz5

my potted self root Orange Beauty fruits are pretty large

Your watering is working- I don’t think mine are even close to that big. One looks a bit misshapen though. I think mine are more pointed. I’ll have to go take some pics.

[castanea]

I planted the jujube seeds that led to Orange Beauty many, many years ago so I don’t have a clear memory of what I planted. OB was a very tiny seedling that grew outdoors in a pot for at least 6-7 years before it had any fruit. The only thing I remember is that most of the seeds I planted were from either Sihong or Sugar Cane. Many of the Sihong seeds were probably pollenized by Chico. Many of the Sugar Cane seeds were probably polllenized by Jin/Chang.

[BobVance]

@castanea

led to Orange Beauty many, many years ago so I don’t have a clear memory of what I planted.

Maybe prof Yao’s genetic testing will help answer that question. Orange Beauty is one of the ones I’m slated to send her.

@castanea

were probably pollenized by Chico. Many of the Sugar Cane seeds were probably polllenized by Jin/Chang

I’m surprised you can narrow it down that well. I try to write the type the seed came out of on pots, but I have no idea what pollinated it. It could be one of dozens of varieties, as even non-fruitful varieties like GA866 still have some flowers.

And often enough, by the time a seedling actually fruits, I sometimes lose what the seed-parent was as well, either by the paint/tag fading or being lost when re-potted or planted. Regrettably, this is the case for the first seedling to produce decent-sized fruit. I suspect it is So, but it could be Honey Jar and there is an outside chance it was from something Cliff sent me (though I think those were mostly a year younger than this one, but it’s possible).

[castanea]

The only reason I could narrow it down at all was because most of my jujubes in the 1990s did not produce viable seeds.

[mamuang]

No, China Yellow has not fruited. I just checked it today. It has not grown much, either. Castenea sent it to me the year he moved, 2020?. Hopefully, it will fruit next year.

[dpps]

I decided to place an order for both Honey Jar and Russia #2 from CRD, because the description lists Russia #2 as:

Russian 2: Small, dark-colored fruit, pointed at far end. Juicy and crispy, excellent fresh eating quality. Early fruiting and productive. Great for home gardeners.

Since I’m a home gardener, looking for crispy productive fruit, I thought this would be a good fit. And, even though I thought I only had room for one tree, I’m gonna pull some unproductive bushes out (gooseberries and honeyberries) to make room for both… People in this forum are too persuasive when it comes to buying more plants!!!

Anyway… there was some discussion in this thread as to whether or not Black Sea is the same as Russia #2. So, I asked Bingye if they were the same. He said: “We don’t know anything about Black Sea.”

So, FYI

[BobVance]

@dpps

there was some discussion in this thread as to whether or not Black Sea is the same as Russia #2. So, I asked Bingye if they were the same. He said: “We don’t know anything about Black Sea.”

He should talk to his wife more She told me that in their genetic testing, they found:

Black Sea=Russian #2. Massandra and Maya has only one base pair difference, almost identical. we tested them again in the August 2022 run.

I’ve been impressed with Russia #2/Black Sea’s precocity this year. It wasn’t bad in the past (a couple Russia #2 from CRD were pretty quick), but I wasn’t happy the small Black Sea tree from OGW took so many years to fruit.

Here’s a new graft of BS/R2 from a rental. It is especially impressive due to the rental being in a shaded environment. I guess this summer there was so much sun that even places which get 1/2 had enough for some fruit.

Sugar Cane and Honey Jar also had some fruit at this location. A few other tree had less or none, but I think it is possible that they were short on water. Note that part of the lawn in the Honey Jar pic is dead. The non-productive (but still healthy looking) trees are on the other side of the dead lawn. They were well mulched (blowing leaves to edge of yard each year), but that may not have been enough.

edit: pic re-added. as it didn’t successfully upload initially…

While I’m posting pictures of partially shaded jujubes, here is another (from a different site), which gets mid-morning through just after noon (a bit more sun than the above pics). I think this same tree produced only 2-3 fruit last year. A year older and a lot more sunny weather…

@scottfsmith are your partially shaded jujubes doing better this year? Or are they now all in sunny locations?

In contrast, here is a Honey Jar in a sunny location:

[scottfsmith]

@BobVance

@scottfsmith are your partially shaded jujubes doing better this year? Or are they now all in sunny locations?

I removed them. They were both in shady area and planted closely together.

The new ones in sun are growing slowly, the deer keep defeating my fencing. The harder I make it for them the harder they work to get at the trees.

[BlueBerry]

Maybe some deer repellent spray would be a good investment??

[mamuang]

My Sugar Cane, most cracked from a down pour last week, very disappointed. Several lbs of them.

[scottfsmith]

@BlueBerry

Maybe some deer repellent spray would be a good investment??

It wasn’t … many hundred dollars later. I sprayed today and just saw three deer. If I had 100% coverage all the time it might work but I have not been able to get up to that level given the time required.

I’m doing to double fence some stuff next spring, also use stiffer posts. I made mistakes on fencing on several of the trees but some of them are holding solid and I just need to copy those.

[BobVance]

@scottfsmith

many hundred dollars later. I sprayed today and just saw three deer…double fence some stuff next spring

Wow- that’s horrible. Doesn’t sound like repellents actually affect them. The deer in my area don’t visit often, so it is hard to say if me chasing them with a shovel helped or not. I wasn’t sure if I really wanted to catch them, but was willing to give it a try…It’s been a year or two since then and as far as I can tell, they haven’t come back. Too bad the other critters stick around.

@mamuang

My Sugar Cane, most cracked from a down pour last week, very disappointed. Several lbs of them.

That looks about like some of my Sugar Cane trees. But others, particularly the one with a very heavy load took things much better. There is some cracking, but it isn’t too prevalent. I picked about half of the cracked fruit (at least any badly cracked) I saw which had any brown and it was just a handful, with another 15+ pounds of fruit on the tree.

That tree is a bit later in ripening- most of my Sugar Cane are about mid-way, though one that I transplanted this spring is completely done. It has great sun exposure and I guess the recovery from transplant kept it from having too heavy a load (lots of cracking though).

The texture of the fruit from newly transplanted (back in March) trees is a bit lacking. Both Sugar Cane and Coco weren’t very crisp (unusual for them). Honey Jar was still crisp and good, even after the transplant. Most of my other Honey Jar trees don’t have any ripe fruit yet, but the transplants at this site seem early (either due to the excess sun or the transplant itself…).

[BobVance]

@BobVance

That tree is a bit later in ripening- most of my Sugar Cane are about mid-way

I got over to the other heavily loaded Sugar Cane (actually, it is just 2 big branches on a tree that is getting a bit big) tonight and it was 5-10% ripe. I picked just under a quart. Some cracking on the ripe ones, but the green ones look pretty good. If we get another 10 days of mostly sun (current forecast has 2 days with the chance of a bit of rain, but not much), then I think things will be looking good.

Earlier in the day, I picked the first full-size Autumn Beauty (some earlier ones were missing their pit and smaller). I also got the first Mei Mi, which was quite good (crisp and sweeter).

@castanea & @k8tpayaso ,
I did get a few widely separated fruit on my Porterville graft on the new wood. I’m not sure if it’s shape was impacted by setting so late in the year season or if it just isn’t that old yet…It does have a small indentation at the bottom, but doesn’t look all that much like the mature Porterville pics.