@jrd51 Seems more appropriate to answer your questions from the link below on a KSDS thread:
I don’t have conclusive evidence that any kaki varieties have KSDS resistance. I don’t grow many replicates of the same variety due to space limitations, but I have lost two Saijo trees and two Coffee Cake trees within the first 1-3 years of growing them, but others like Tecumseh and IKKJ I’ve been growing for 13 years without any symptoms yet. So I’m making the assumption that the varieties that succumb to KSDS relatively early in my growing experience are more susceptible than those that show symptoms as more mature trees (in my experience, this has been Tam Kam, Nikita’s Gift, Kasandra, and Giombo which all died after growing for 3+ years and producing a significant crop).
I’ve read on this forum that Xylella fastidiosa could be the pathogen causing KSDS. If so, then it would be transmitted exclusively by xylem sap-feeding insects such as sharpshooters and spittlebugs. I’ve never seen a D. virginiana tree with symptoms, but whenever I try to graft D. kaki to one of the many root suckers of the large male D. virginiana tree in my back yard, they always fail. And when I’ve tried to regraft D. kaki to the surviving rootstock of one of my trees that died of KSDS or any of the suckers of those trees, those grafts also fail. I can only successfully graft D. kaki to D. virginiana seedlings or the root suckers of my living D. kaki trees (which are all grafted to D. virginiana). That’s what makes me think that D. virginiana is a host of the pathogen without exhibiting symptoms. I’ve lost hybrids like Kasandra and Nikita’s Gift, so at least those two varieties are also susceptible to KSDS.
I have no idea if the pathogen persists in the soil.
@jrd51 I just saw your addition to your post on the other thread, so I’m responding here to keep everything together on the KSDS thread:
My initial plantings of kakis in 2012-2014 all came from Edible Landscaping. Some of those trees are still growing well without any issues (Tecumseh, IKKJ, Maekawa Jiro, Wase Fuyu, Izu) but others died from KSDS (Sung Hui, Hana Gosho, Saijo, Fuyu, Tam Kam). I’ve transplanted many D. virginiana root suckers from the surviving EL grafted kaki trees and successfully used them as rootstock for kaki scions. I have lost some kakis that I grafted myself onto root suckers and seedlings, but it’s a relatively small percentage of those trees that got KSDS, and they grew well for several years before they died (Nikita’s Gift, Kasandra, Coffee Cake). I also have a couple of kakis from JF&E that have been healthy, and I’ve never lost a tree that I bought from them.
Most of the persimmons I grow now I grafted myself from scionwood that I purchased or received in trades. I once cut dormant kaki scionwood in February and traded it with someone else, but then that mother tree subsequently died of KSDS later that same year in the early summer (I can’t recall the variety off the top of my head). The person to whom I sent the kaki scionwood successfully grafted it before the mother tree in my yard died of KSDS and I was able to warn them about what had happened. Their grafted tree has been growing for years since then without any sign of KSDS. That’s only a sample size of one, but it makes me suspect that KSDS isn’t something that kaki trees will harbor for very long without exhibiting any symptoms like D.virginiana seems to do.
I initially tried regrafting kaki to the surviving rootstocks of trees that had died of KSDS many times with no success. Then I started destroying all the infected rootstocks. Now I’m assuming that most mature wild D.virginiana trees in my area are already infected, so I doubt that burning infected rootstocks will spare me from KSDS here. I’ve since grafted named D.virginiana varieties to infected D. virginiana rootstocks, and they have grown well and fruited with no apparent ill effects.
If the pathogen is indeed Xylella fastidiosa, then it would have hosts other than persimmons. X. fastidiosa is the pathogen that causes Pierce’s Disease in grapes and other plants, but it doesn’t seem to be a problem in colder climates. So that could help you avoid any future problems with it in your climate.
I would be cautious about grafting multiple persimmon varieties to the same rootstock, though, particularly if you’re grafting D. virginiana scions to a tree that also has kaki grafted to it. If the D. virginiana scions carry the KSDS pathogen, it could infect the rootstock and kill the kaki portions of the multi-grafted tree.
I don’t know this for a fact, but based on my experience I doubt that kaki scionwood that was cut when it was dormant would carry KSDS. My current thinking is that the pathogen is probably X. fastidiosa transmitted by xylem-feeders from resistant plants like D. virginiana.
@ncdabbler – Great info. Thanks. It sounds like i may avoid the problem except on individual purchased trees from a nursery using infected rootstock.
Re grafts on the established tree: In fact, I have grafted five DV varieties (H63A, Barbra’s Blush, Dollywood, H-118, and Morris Burton) to an established DV tree. All of those grafts have done well. I have also grafted the hybrid JT-02 and the kaki Miss Kim to the same tree. JT-02 has been fine, quite robust. But Miss Kim has struggled. I put 3-4 scions on one branch using bark grafts during the same year I grafted 3 American varieties. All the grafts took but over the next few years all but one has subsequently withered and died. I can’t know what the cause might have been but the symptoms were like SDS, affecting different grafts at different times. The one surviving graft set fruit this past year but then branch broke above the graft. After clean up, i’m left wth a single small stub with a few buds. We’lll see.
Finally, this past year I tried to graft Nikita’s Gift to this tree but all the grafts failed. Meanwhile, I successfully grafted a scion from the same batch to a small DV rotstock, so the scions seem to have been OK. I was puzzled by the failure, but maybe SDS is to blame. At the same time, I grafted a second branch with JT-02 and these grafts succeeded, so JT-02 seems tolerant / immune.
It occurs to me now that if that established tree is infected, its root suckers would be infected as well. I should avoid using those root suckers for Kakis. Your warning may have saved me some otherwise wasted time.
I also had a virginiana rootstock that would not take any kakis after 3-4 years of trying, but it took JT-02 no problem; another data point confirming that it seems more resistant. I have another rootstock which also has not taken any kakis and I was going to put Nikita’s Gift on it this year but now I am wondering if that won’t be a waste of time.
I decided to take out two mature kakis this winter which were showing signs of KSDS, not completely dying but parts of the trees were dying back.
I probably have KSDS in the remaining trees so not really sure what the long-term approach is. Either I could level things and start all over, perhaps with some west coast trees which seem to be cleaner, or just grow tolerant things like JT-02.
It’s impossible to predict future performance with certainty but FWIW I had no problems grafting Kakis (Saijo, Sheng) as well as JT-02 to bareroot rootstock purchased from Missouri. i’m buying some more there this year.
I second that you will love smiths best, it is my favorite astringent followed closely by saijo. And mine are not pollinated. The tree stays small - 8-9 foot at most and is very productive most years. I usually harvest my tree on Halloween once all the green has gone from the skin color. When soft ripe it has one of the richest flavors of them all with strong notes of vanilla. I have never understood why it is not more popular. My tree is also planted in a half a day of shade and still cranks out the fruit.
I’ve lost the following to what I am pretty sure is KSDS - JT02, Nikita#4, Rossyanka, Zima Khurma, Kujinaja, Zenji maru and Saijo. Most of these were multigrafts and the same trees haven’t had any problem with American persimmons that were often on lower and less ideal branches.
I also have Sosnovskaya and Gora Roman Kosh grafted on my Prok, and GRK, which was both the top graft and a top branch grafted over, died out completely and Sosnovsakay had a lot of die back on the tips and the brown marks showing on leaves so I’m pretty sure it will eventually go as well. If Sosnovskaya survives, I guess the GRK dying could have been something else, but if Sosnovskaya goes as well, I’ll certainly consider it to have been KSDS.
Yup. Although a few of them were from attempts to regraft a tree before I realized it had KSDS.
Interestingly I saw the mention of Edible Landscaping above and, while I don’t want to blame them, it is odd that both of my trees from EL ultimately seem to be affected by KSDS. I wonder if the source of rootstocks might ultimately play into things with either a higher likelihood of infection in some genetic populations the rootstocks are coming from or just a higher infection rate.
So far I haven’t had a single issue in trees grafted to Missouri seedlings.
I didn’t intend to blame Edible Landscaping for my trees that died from KSDS either. I bought a lot of trees from EL when I first started growing kakis, and most of those that ultimately died of KSDS grew very well for years before they finally showed any symptoms. I suspect if their D. virginana rootstocks were infected with the KSDS pathogen, they wouldn’t be able to successfully graft kaki to them. It seems more likely to me that I just live in an area where there are many wild D. virginiana trees that are already infected with KSDS.
I will say that I’m not particularly confident in all the varieties I purchased from EL being true to type. I got an astringent “Izu” the first time that looked a lot more like Hachiya or Giombo. They replaced the “Izu,” and that tree is non-astringent, but so many of the non-astringent cultivars are very similar, and I can’t be sure they’re the real thing.
@zendog, I’m sorry to read how many you’ve lost, and I feel your pain!
My theory is that the southern American persimmons somehow have long term compatibility issues with kakis. I don’t believe the bacteria theory - all my other trees nearby were not infected but only the 2 mature (7-8 years old) kakis on southern American persimmon rootstocks (the suckers are reddish).
@TNHunter may give us some ideas in next couple of years. Hope his trees avoid this dreadful KSDS and survive longer.
I warn people who just start to grow persimmons: avoid grafting any kakis on southern American persimmon rootstocks. It’s no fun watching your 7-8 years beautiful tree die suddenly.
Delayed graft incompatibility may be a factor, but I don’t think it’s just a matter of kaki incompatibility with tetraploid (“southern”) D. virginiana. Based on the appearance of the suckers of the trees I bought from Edible Landscaping compared to those growing in my area, I’d assume that all the rootstocks they used for my trees are hexaploid (“northern”), and I’ve lost plenty of them to KSDS. But I’m just guessing on the ploidy and don’t know for sure - they do look distinctly different, though.
I agree - it’s really tragic to have trees that age die so quickly.
My one fatality was Cardinal on DV, purchased from OGW. Does anyone know whether they use the northern or southern version?
Your theory does not explain apparent cross-contamination in multi-grafted trees. For example, I have a DV tree purchased from Stark’s as Prok. I assume that the rootstock is northern DV. I’ve top-worked it with 5 different named DV varieties, all northern. I also added the DK variety Miss Kim, which flourished then mostly died. And an attempt to graft Nikita’s Gift failed – the only failure after earlier successes with one hybrid (JT-02), one kaki (Miss Kim), and the 5 mentioned DVs.
I acknowledge that there’s no proof that the Stark DV rootstock was infected by the DV grafts. Also I can’t know for sure that the problems with Miss Kim and Nakita’s Gift were due to SDS. All I know is that there’s no southern DV involved.
By yesterday it was completely defoliated and the symptoms seem the same as last year.
For Asians and hybrids, I still have two Fuyus, two Giombos, a Chocolate, a Coffee Cake, and a Tanenashi (all presumably on northern rootstock), as well as a newly-grafted Kassandra (grafted on local wild southern rootstock) remaining.
I don’t really need any advice, but I need to share my grief with someone! I live near Houston, TX, and all my commercially-sourced locally-purchased kaki trees are no doubt grafted on southern D.v. rootstock. A few years ago I lost a large (circa 15’ tall) 8-year old Saijo to Kaki Sudden Death Syndrome (previously reported elsewhere on this forum). Last year one of my large (circa 12’ tall, 10 years in-ground) Hana Fuyu trees (with several top-worked branches of Choclate, lycopersicon, akoumanzaki, and fire crystal) dropped all its thousands of flowers and unopened buds. This year it has done the same thing, and now many terminal twigs are dropping their leaves and dying. I have another 16’ tall Saijo that has just dropped all its unopened flower buds (it fruited last year). I also have a 7’ tall IKKJ tree (with about 15 different cultivars on it) that has also dropped all its flower buds (it had fruits on about 8 different cultivars last year). I fear ksds is striking again, and my whole Asian persimmon collection is about to vanish in a single season! I have “back-up” plants of only about 5 varieties that I grafted onto local D.v. seedling rootstocks in containers, but my circa 20 other cultivars may all crater.
In search of a disease free, insect/mite resistant, freeze-proof, heat and drought tolerant fruiting plant that isn’t troubled by varmints. I am open to any and all suggestions. LOL
I feel your pain, I am pretty much starting over in the last two years myself. I have JT-02 already and if any other tree dies I will just put another resistant hybrid in its place.
