I see several posts about mulching leaves which is what I was also doing when I first started. Mulched leaves seem to break down faster and tend to not blow around. For the last few years however I have started a different approach by adding leaves without mulching. The leaves break down slower and help suppress grass and weeds from growing under my trees and muscadine vines. Grass and weeds are prolific in my area.
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I do the same. The less I have to do, the more likely I am to do it, which in this case not do it 
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The way i understand itā¦ Leaf Mold is leaves broken down by Fungus. Leaf compost is leaves broken down by Bacteria.
Leaf Compost if mixed or tilled into soil requires Nitrogen by the bacteria to break down.
Leaf Mold can be mixed or tilled into soil without Nitrogen loss.
Planting in Leaf Compost will require the addition of Nitrogen or less vegetative growth will be likely.
Planting in Leaf Mold will not require the addition of extra Nitrogen.
Forest floor is likely leaf moldā¦ cool/dampā¦then shaded by canopy in summer. Many layers of fallen leaves create the environment needed for Fungus.
Adding leaf compost on top of soil in your yard or garden will likely lead to bacterial break downā¦ which will require Nitrogen.
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the pile photo above is always pretty warm about 120 to 130 degrees F is my guesss.so pretty sure itās composting and itās 99% all leaves. Iāve mixed it with my clay soil 50/50 and have not noticed any nitrogen difficency/yellow leaves in plants.
Do you have to have grass trimmings in the leaf mulch or just leaves if you put the mulch around fruit trees and blackberries? Could the mulch cause fungal diseases in the plants? I have oak leaves here.
My understanding is that any material added to the soil with an adequate N to C ratio will not pull N from the soil and that leaves fall into this group of materials while wood chips do not. Hay has an N positive ratio while straw does not, and so forth. However, leaves fully broken down into compost should add N to the soil (gradually) however they were composted (cool or hot), but even N deficient materials like woodchips will do the same once they are composted and relatively stable. It is only during the composting process that N can be pulled from the soil at the expense of plants growing in it.
This has always been how Iāve understood the issue, but I can see how it might be more complex than that- do you have a more complex explanation?
I have found that plant response to compost from every source Iāve used is positive and havenāt seen any noticeable difference that jumped out at me. However, leaf mold seems to be more hydrophobic than other composts (it actually isnāt completely composted), which is often a good thing when drainage is needed. It is my go-to for amending soil for blueberries in bad drainage, heavy soils- or needle mold found at the base of white pine trees here. Once leaf mold is fully composted it probably looses this quality- I think it helps trees ward of the establishment of competitors from rooting in soil under their canopies. It keeps the top couple of inches too dry for seeds to sprout.
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Yes it is very complexā¦ i only translate the best that i can from modern and past science papers and writings.
Even the word ācompostā has various meanings. A fresh pile of woodchips or freshly ground leaves from this season according to many cities and persons is ācompostā.
So for this particular discussionā¦ lets assume that we are talking about leaves from this seasonā¦ and not someones compost pile behind the barn that has been there for years.
āIf newly fallen leaves are added directly to the soil
without first being composted, the microbes that
decompose the leaves compete with growing plants for
soil nitrogen. The temporary nitrogen shortage caused
by the microbes can reduce plant growthā
This is from a Fact Sheet from a Soil Scientist at Rutgers Univ.
I do notice that this paper does not define compost.
So I found a paper by Rutgers Univ. that defines compost.
ācompost will be ready in 4-9 months.ā
āLeaf compost is not normally a fertilizer, because it is too low in nutrientsā
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That statement is nonsense in my book, there is a lot of quick release K in leaves and even in woodchips.
However, my memory failed me on the subject of adding material directly to the soil, I conflated it with balancing N to Carbohydrates in the composting process, which is something I never worry about and is only an issue when you are in a hurry. Thanks for straightening me out.
However leaves fall when we arenāt usually worried about N levels in the soil and if you added it directly to the soil in the fall, it probably would only do good things by the time soil is warm enough in the spring for most plants to grow. Shredded leaves applied as mulch wonāt meaningfully tie up N either, at least in my experience.
As far as fertilizer, of course leaves are fertilizer, just not a very concentrated one. https://www.mofga.org/resources/lawncare/let-leaves-feed-your-soil/
Hereās another piece that suggests N tie up is likely to continue through the following spring. Fall Leaves Can Harm Your Garden - Garden Myths
From my perspective, since I start most of my plants outside my garden and wait until soil warms to move them there, who cares? I use my own urine to make sure all my plants have ample N even if the soil doesnāt.
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I am at a cross roads with science and education. I think that we both along with other inclined parties can keep this discussion going for a great while if we wish quoting experts, scientists, master gardeners and even people with real life experiences.
In the end we are discussing manipulating and moving leaves that by nature fall upon the floor/ground for the future health and benefit of said tree.
For example-
āShredded leaves are an excellent addition to soils for vegetable and annual flower gardens, as well as preparation for new gardens. Giving the garden a quick rough turn with the potato fork will incorporate leaves and begin them in the process of decompositionā
āWhen leaves are composted by themselves, the end product is leaf mold, which is highly prized by gardeners.ā
This article was written by a Master Gardener that educates and teaches other Master Gardeners.
The complexity lies if you read from the perspective of a soil scientist, a gardener, or an orchardistā¦ and even further complex from a layman on the internet. The whole complexity of removing a trees fallen leaves for other uses and purposes than intendedā¦ is a human thing.
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Hereās something weird, peat moss has as high an average C:N ratio as leaves and Iāve never read of cautioning people not to incorporate it into gardening soil. It certainly decomposes rapidly when you mix with neutral or near neutral soil. This is a list.
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I love it. I never considered carbon as an important soil nutrient. Now I want to learn more about that.
As far as complexity, my obsessive personality thrives on it. Most people are lucky enough not to be so obsessive.
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Keep in mind that planting that tree in an open field is a manipulation ānatureā is constantly trying to undo. Maintaining the manipulation is what we constantly try to do.
Not that there is anything wrong with our manipulation; anything that exists touches and changes the environment around them; I forage on virgin forests and use many animal trails that they created over years of said touching. In the case of apple trees we are trying to balance our desired manipulation (open field) with what the tree needs (more nutrients than an open field provides).
As stated i live surrounded by trees and i donāt rake leaves. By now (leaves has already dropped) there arenāt many leaves in the open spaces (windy here) but the forest floor is littered with them, where they get stuck to become hummus. Leaves falling on my manipulated open spaces is not enough, there isnāt anything there to hold them in place for them to accomplish much, so more manipulation is needed in order to establish a healthy ecological balance for open field and three to exist.
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Would be a great yet horrible āloungeā topic.
Peat- not much grows in a peat bogā¦but it grows nearly every seed and seedling that we can imagine. Does it destroy the environment? Or does it grow things to help the environment?
Manure- we will not touch it with our hands as it is ābadā yet we feel good when we put it on things that we put in our mouths. Does anyone factor in the bedding of manure? Is it even manure?
Woodchips- a recent interesting topic. Is it the wood or the ground up leaves? Does it rob nitrogen? Why do we feel the need to do this?
Soil conditioner- mixing pine bark fines into soil. Some say its great. Some say any wood under the soil is bad.
Compost- so many definitionsā¦ mushroom compost? leaf compost? Compost Tea? Food Scraps?
Worms- the hate/love is always interestingā¦ some say invasiveā¦some say āblack goldā.
Nitrogenā¦ too much gives me aphidsā¦too less nothing growsā¦
Hugelkultur - who knows?
We will never come to a consensus on any of thisā¦ and is almost worse than talking about politicsā¦ so many feelings and emotions evolve with our gut feelings.
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The problem is that a lot of those things get strawmaned into non sequitur arguments. Take wood chips for instance; do they pull nitrogen off the soil? Well like everything else in life it doesnāt work that great if you do it wrong. It is not that complicated to get it right: The problem, it needs nitrogen. The solution, you add nitrogen, which the soil around it also needs. Around my trees I apply 5" of green wood chips twice a year, thatās 10" breaking down into the soil each year. It all gets fueled with diluted urea which obviously provides all the nitrogen it needs to pull that off.
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Methods for bag composting leaves from Iowa State extension:
Fall Leaves - Put Them to Work in your Landscape with Bag Composting
They can be used while composting to protect tender plants, as well.
I am a few years into the reading and listeningā¦and still do not have a clear answer as to whether planting trees in the Fall or planting trees in the Springā¦is best. As far as i can tellā¦ the average tree planter does so in the spring. Arbor Day is in late April. However i think the very elite experts and persons who have decades of experience would plant their trees in Autumn. Many places you cannot even buy a tree in Autumnā¦to plant.
Mowing- that can get interesting. To some its a must doā¦ to others its a must dont.
I guess as a personal choice i like to see the before/after shots.
Here is my tomatoes grown without leaf mold/compostā¦ here is my tomatoes grown with itā¦
I have seen these things done with biocharā¦ which is another crazy permaculture kinda of thing that arouses feelings and theories.
I have seen leaving all trimmings and spent canes in rows to decompose and feedā¦ and also seen/read where it all must be burned or removedā¦
I like where we are headed in this forum with new ideas and old ideasā¦ seeing what works and what doesnt and we can use others wisdom for our own benefits.
My discussion of feeding birds went the opposite of my intentionsā¦ but in modern society the best way to get people interested is to talk negativelyā¦that ensures their stance as positive.
Holding a sign that reads āI hate Birdsā will envoke masses of bird lovers to unite against me. Holding a sign of āI love Birdsā will make people think im kindā¦but uninteresting. This will not envoke masses of bird haters against meā¦
The word āTrashā in my subject line was the best bait that i could use to get folks to gather for the cause of āTreasureā. Which is my end goalā¦to learn more about how/why/when etc of leaves in my versions of horticulture.
Then youāll have to read my article in the newspaper on fall planting later this week, 
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In case it doesnt cover itā¦ it all roots back to tradition. A word that most of us dont realize its the reason why we do the things we do and keep doing themā¦ regardless of science or education. Someone somewhere at some time did it this wayā¦ and forever more it will be that way.
I started planting trees in Autumn about 30 years ago here in the Northeast where we used to get test winters as low as -22F and average low used to be between -10 and -15. None of them damaged my fall planted fruit trees. The main damage here used to be and perhaps some winters will continue to be from freeze thaw events that can pitch a freshly planted tree from the soil or create cracks that let the cold hit roots. This is avoided easily with a thick mulch.
I do most of my transplanting of bare root, grow bag and container bearing age fruit trees in the fall because that is my best window for it- spring is a very short one. I transplant from late Oct until Late Dec if I have the business. Anecdotally, I would suggest fall planting tends to work a bit better than spring- I will get somewhat more growth the first season. What you want to avoid, if you can, is transplanting after first root growth in, say, mid-Spring because those roots will die, wasting precious stored energy so growth will be retarded.
Of course, I can plant my 25 gallon container trees any time, but summer planting requires frequent watering until roots are established in the new soil.
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i dont even add N. just let green woodchips rot on the surface. been doing it for 7 yrs in the yard. no weeds and by the following spring, 5in. is down to 1/2in. thereās enough greens in there to break it down. and then feed your plants as well. adding N would over do it here but your gravely soil its probably a benefit as it doesnt stay around as long as it would in my clay. woodchips are great as it improves my clay over time and holds moisture/nutrients in place in your soil.
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