M7 vs M111

Another option is to pick up some G.935 and graft the Honeycrisp onto it for the location near your French drain and plant the M7 in another spot for future topworking.

The nice thing about the internet is you get to hear a wide range of opinions- the only problem is that it can be confusing where there is a lot of conflicting anecdotal information. Conditions and cultivar have at least as much to do with anchorage as rootstock, so comparative anchorage of rootsocks needs to be determined by tests of same cultivars on different rootstocks side by side in a range of soil and wind conditions.

In the commercial apple production industry it is easy to evaluate the relative anchorage of rootstocks because growers often use a wide range of rootstocks based on availability. Also, land grant universities do a lot of rootstock comparison.

The following is something the Canadian Dept of Ag published to describe M7 and 111. I’ve often encountered similar discussion of M7’s relative poor anchorage and my own experience has consistently enforced this.

I think either rootstock works fine for home orchards, and that home growers needn’t be very concerned about relative productivity of rootsock- mature apple trees crank lot of fruit on any common rootstock. Precocity can be important, of course, but like vigor, this is also highly influenced by the nature of any specific cultivar.

M.7 (Malling 7)

Released from the East Malling breeding program, this rootstock gives a tree a little larger than M.26 and a little smaller than MM.106. It is generally too vigorous for high density plantings. It is available in various virus reduced states such as M.7A, M.7 EMLA. It performs best on a good soil in a location protected from the wind, in a district with relatively mild winter temperatures. Bud high and plant deeply to improve anchorage and to reduce the strong tendency to produce root suckers. M.7 is a good producer of plants in the stoolbed, but in comparative orchard trials, fruit production on M.7 has not been impressive.

As a rootstock in the orchard, M.7 has a history of poor anchorage, low uptake of potassium and frost-tender roots. Fruit production is relatively light for the first 10 years, after which ladders are needed to pick the fruit. Except where previous experience has been favourable, growers are cautioned against making extensive plantings on M.7.

MM.111 (Malling-Merton 111)

This tree is about the best in this class, although tree size is about 80% of standard. Though slightly more vigorous than the old M.2, the anchorage of MM. 111 is better and the tree seems adaptable to a wider range of soil conditions. Commercial stocks of MM.111 are virus-free and appear resistant to collar-rot.

Right you are, Alan.

I picked M9/M111 as the predominant rootstock for my site - good clay soil, high water table, exposed site with a lot of wind - due to recommendations, at the time, for it providing excellent anchorage. Just didn’t perform as advertised for me.
Trees on M7, M106, and at least one on M26 have all shown anchorage superior to those on M111…here.
YMMV.

Ah the old 9-11 interstem. I used to get Baldwin apple trees from Cummins with that and with Baldwin it works perfectly well, but the more vigorous the tree the more likely it will anchor well, I think. Baldwin is quite vigorous.

One of the Cummin’s Baldwins is on one of my windiest sites where most of the '7s had to be propped up at some point. Not only is it windy but it has a silty loam layer over sand that interferes with drainage (that may sound strange, but it has to do with capillary pull). The Baldwin stands straight and strong without any extra help.

Over the last couples years I have ended up with a lot of M7 from Cummins and their subsidiary OrangePippinTrees.com in selecting for semi-dwarf roots based on scion availability. The trees on M.7 sure are vigorous growers in their first and second leaf. But on my site (a wet-ish to cringe-worthy hydric backyard) M.7 and G.935 appear to be of the same vigour, but all are different scions.

I have also spoken with the local u-pick grower and he didn’t have much redeeming to say about M.7 either. I gathered they had significant experience with M.7. I believe the gist was that it was too vigorous, fireblight prone due to vigor, and too big of a tree for a U-pick operation. Though there aren’t many trees leaning on his site. Like everyone else, he was moving to some sort of low trellised orchard on dwarfing rootstocks.

Planted the tree on M7 today. Pretty healthy and fibrous root system here!

This thing had suckers already!

I pruned it out and planted it in a pot. If it grows, I’ll graft another variety on to it! :grin:

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Great way to increase your rootstock. I have done the same thing. Bill

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I have two M7 apples to plant tomorrow. I see the helpful tip here to plant M7 “deep” to minimize root sprouts.

How far above grade should I leave the graft union? I usually leave graft union two inches above grade. Thanks for any ideas.

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@hambone How are your trees on M7 doing? Are you satisfied with this rootstock? What is your soil type?

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Ahmad,
I coearly not Hambone. I have 3 apples on M7. The first two were planted 7-8 years ago before I know what was doing. (still don’t).

One leaned a bit and was poorly pruned. The the 2nd one leaned badly. Both were removed last month. The third one was planted 5 years ago and has stood pretty straight so it is still standing.

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My M7s are doing fine. Not suckering too bad and not leaning. So far, so good. I believe I planted them a little deeper than usual on advice that that reduces suckering.

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You are always welcome to chime in Tippy! I did not originally address you because you had commented earlier on this topic. However, your feedback is different now, so thanks again. I already received two apple trees on M7 (didn’t have other choice with this variety), so will have to be very careful taking care of these trees. I am planning on open-center training.

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For me , on my heavy clay soil , M7 will often fall over , or lean badly.
M111 … a strong but large tree.
I have seen M7 work well on better soils

My trees on M7 fruited in year 3 (year 2 for William’s Pride). No suckering at all. My Gold Rush on M7 stands quite straight.

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Having grown about a dozen apples on M7 and at least half a dozen on M111 to several years of age…including a Fuji and Granny Smith still upright, still alive, and not suckering at age 30.
(The Granny is declining fast and I have already planted a ‘replacement’ on B118 near it.)
Both are slow to bear, M111 being slower.

My soil is sandy loam, and I am hoping that the open center training is more stable than the modified central leader commonly used with apples. I will also stake the tree.

I wonder if M7 would benefit from staking in its early years to guarantee it stays upright, and then be free standing later on.

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Andy, some of mine did lean…but none ever fell over. I never used any stakes and let them crop as early as they wanted. In an un-protected area on the top of the bank beside the highway.

(Clay soil close to the surface and not a lot of topsoil…or I might have chosen MM106).

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I have had some M7 rootstocks (3/8) get pushed over when we had high winds after the ground was saturated. I straightened and supported them and they appear to be fine now (unsupported). As it was suggested, I think they may be susceptible when they are approaching full size, but perhaps not as an established, older tree.

Another thought I had was that it may be a good idea to plant M7 stocks deep (close to the graft union) to 1) provide additional stability and 2) minimize the likelihood of significant burr knot (which has been a problem with M7 when covering the base to protect against rodents). I have a few now that are planted deep, but have not had an adequate period of assessment.

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BlueBerry, what is your favorite apple rootstock?