Just to clarify a few things… To my knowledge and observation Morus nigra is ALWAYS monoecious. However, usually this isn’t visible in a way that the number of male and female flowers is balanced. Normally the species is predominantly female with just a few male catkins hiding under the leaves and they usually go unnoticed. Hence the perception that the tree is female. The balance in flower type can suddenly reverse from one year to the other with almost 100% male flowers and just a few fruit appearing here and there. This reverse of sex is becoming an issue more frequently; at least in my observation. More and more people come to ask me for advice on how to solve this problem… I presume it may have to be linked to climate change. No proof of course but the fact is that it is ocurring much more frequently now…
About M.nigra seedlings and bad root formation: I totally disagree. In my observations M.nigra seedlings make a huge rootmass, more than M.alba the only problem ist that the above ground part doesn’t follow… Especially the part where the collar is where, the root connects to the stem, there is burl formation and it is as though the nutrients which are needed to feed the above ground part never get transported and just make the rootmass grow even more. Finally, after a few or many years the sap flow seems to stop completely and the above ground part withers. Just to anticipate some reactions: there is no fungal infection or rot…just burl formation. A withered seedling still has a very nice healthy rootsystem…
Ok but that doesn’t change the fact that as a result, the only way to get around that is to get a viable caliper stick and graft it onto an alba as soon as feasible
So far 7 out of ~30 seeds have germinated from my first test batch without cold stratification. That’s a pretty lousy germination rate, but the seed is already a few years old. The oldest two are starting to push their true leaves after their first potting up:
You may notice one of those has a buddy. They had already fused roots, so I’m letting them become naturally grafted together. Who knows, maybe that will help them overcome the issues some of you have encountered!
At what point should it become clear whether these are true M. nigra seedlings? This is what they look like now:
I have 3 seedlings so far. Two are vigorous, one is a very small sprout.
The leaves will be fuzzy and dull. No shine to them at all, more like fig leaves
Should they already look that way when they are this small? I see the newest leaves do look fuzzier but they are still very tiny.
Morus nigra is not very cold hardy compared to morus alba or most other temperate fruit trees.
7 degrees F is not “quite cold” for most mulberries.
Small morus nigra trees can get killed under 10 degrees F.
The odds that these seeds are Morus nigra are slim to none. The seed source is Hungary. Hungary has many old Morus alba trees with black fruit that are frequently referred to as Morus nigra. A great many people think that black fruit means a tree must be Morus nigra.
When I raised that issue with Tim at Sheffield’s, he said they are well aware of that problem, but that they were highly confident in the accuracy of their ID. The relatively large seed size also seemed to support that theory, though albas do have a wide range of seed sizes.
Based on these two maps, I don’t see why there wouldn’t be Morus nigra trees in Hungary, though clearly there are also albas there.
The fact that something can grow in an area is not proof that it is growing there.
There certainly “could be” morus nigra in the warmer areas of Hungary, but I’ve never seen a photo of a big one growing there. On the other hand, we know with absolute certainty that Hungary has many large old morus alba trees with black fruit and we also know that some people call those trees morus nigra, just as many people in the US assume that every black fruited mulberry they see is morus nigra.
Sheffields regularly gets identification of Castanea (chestnut) species wrong. They try very hard to accurately ID their seed, but they simply cannot be an expert on everything they sell, nor can they trust everyone they buy from.
The leaves on my largest seedling are starting to look a little fuzzy, but I’m not familiar enough with immature mulberry trees to know if albas also have some fuzz at this size. Any experts ready to chime in yet?
In terms of being “fig-like” I do have a smyrna fig seedling of about the same age, this is what that looks like:
Update that I wound up with 3 seedlings of which one is very vigorous, already 8 inches tall, one is moderately vigorous about 3 inches tall, and one is low vigor, currently about an inch tall. I have them in a 5 gallon container outside against the north side of my house. They need another few days to fully harden off before I can put them in direct sun.
Could very well be nigra imho
Something ate the terminal bud on this one (slug? earwig?) a few days ago, and I noticed today that the leaves are turning yellow and getting moldy. The rest of the seedlings seem ok, albeit maybe ready for some extra N, but I wonder what is infecting this one. Any ideas?
I’d love to see what that most vigorous one looks like! None of mine have taken off that much, but our overnight lows have been pretty cold still (40s to around 50°F), so that could be part of it.
I’ve planted a few of mine out, here’s the largest one, which is about 4" tall now:
It is about 10 inches tall now, still in a 5 gallon container. Low quality picture from my phone, but should give an idea what it is doing.
I just realized I never updated this thread when I posted this in the other one:
https://growingfruit.org/t/free-morus-nigra-seeds/52365/9?u=swincher
I never got a response from Tim at Sheffield’s, but I see they have added a new seed lot, this one from India.
The Hungary one is still listed despite me sending them ploidy results. Nevertheless, I’m going to order a packet of the new seed lot. I do believe that they are trying to find genuine nigra seed, so maybe they will succeed eventually! Whenever they get big enough for ploidy testing I’ll share it here.
On the yellow leaves it could be a number of things? I have found nigra to be susceptible to leaf diseases. They don’t require a lot of watering and letting them dry well before watering has worked well for me. Although pH and any number of things could cause the lack of nutrient uptake which will turn leaves yellow.