As chance would have it, so was my “Black Beauty.”
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Hmmmm.
If you graft Girardi onto another variety, it doesn’t retain it’s dwarfing does it? Or is the dwarfing not affected by the rootstock?
I am not sure (mine are on their own roots) but I’m pretty sure that the dwarfing is retained (although if grafted to a well-established rootstock, it would probably grow out to its maximum size much faster). Gerardi is characterized by having a very short distance between internodes relative to other mulberries. This is the likely cause of its dwarfing habit (and for its extreme amount of fruit production per branch), and it retains that quality of short distance between internodes when grafted.
Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will chime in.
That makes complete sense for it’s dwarfing characteristics.
Thanks.
It’s just I may end up starting different tree this summer but decide on the Girardi (sp?) if/when I can get some wood or a young tree.
I’ve been looking at Mulberries for FL zone 9b as well. We have root knot nematode here so that has been a consideration for me and thought I’d mention it since it’s an issue in many regions. I have looked at varieties found growing wild in areas simular to mine (FL and GA) so that I know they are resistant and can handle the heat/humidity. Shangri-la, wacissa- just fruits and exotics has info on several as to where they were originally found. However, the ones I’ve found get larger. Also, I have a nigra in a pot as it is slow growing but it is very new so can’t speak to how it will work in the long term.
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As far as non astringent persimmons, I have a suruga which looks like it enjoys my area and is supposed to be very tasty, but it needs longer to see if it will give me fruit and it supposed to get 12-14 ft tall. I also have a starter izu which is doing well, non astringent and dwarf, but it is discribed as mild in flavor. The Asian types do well here (humid 9b) from what I’ve seen and read. I wish I were further along to give better info… and to enjoy the fruits! 
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OMG. Anyone who doesn’t know this already…avoid TyTy nursery like The Plague on steroids!
Before I knew better, I made a purchase from them, back around 1995…including ‘Black Giant’ mulberry…which was merely a crappy M.alba seedling that produced small, bitter fruits.
Black…yes. Giant…no.
Everything else in that order arrived DOA, or was just a nondescript seedling, rather than a grafted/budded whip.
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I’m only mentioning them because I had credit from 3 out of 6 trees I purchased from them never leafed out…since I can’t get that back I’m using what’s left on the claim.
So for mulberry I think I’m landing on either Girardi dwarf or weeping.
Girardi is obviously the smallest mulberry I’ve read about, requires no pruning to remain small, and tastes good.
The weeping is a bigger tree but still at 8-12’ and a shape that probably only needs a bob haircut after a few years, this one will work as well. The good part about the weeping besides the aesthetics is it would be easy to net as the branches would not be fighting you.
For persimmon, I’m thinking Ichi-Ki-Kei-Jiro. A small form tree naturally with large, non-astringent fruit.
For now that is my list.
Was looking around at different nurseries for general info on Ichi-Ki-Kei-Jiro and found one that said it was a native American variety.
No way someone used a Japanese name for a native American tree. Maybe it’s a hybrid. Also the fruit is large…i don’t think I’ve seen an American persimmon that big before. Of course that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist…
Says the guy whose never grown or even eaten a persimmon…
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The biggest issue with weeping is that you are really unlikely to get good fruit, to the extent that matters to you. I think that the weeping mulberries are all pure alba, and without any rubra genetics, the fruit tends to lack flavor. I’ve heard “sweet but tastes sort of like grass” as a descriptor for weeping mulberry fruit. (Of course, there’s always a chance that you get a good seedling with standout fruit.)
Just Fruits and Exotics, based in North Florida, is a high-end (and high-priced) nursery that sells some weeping mulberry varieties that would be suitable for your area. Everything I’ve ever gotten from them has been top quality, with excellent roots.
IKKJ is definitely not American at all. It is a nonastringent (PCNA) kaki, notable for early ripening and reputed to have better cold hardiness than most kaki. It’s a good variety.
If I were you, I would be very tempted by Suruga, since you will have what most people lack – the long growing season that it needs. Plus, the word is that it is perhaps a standout of the PCNA kakis in terms of fruit flavor. And if you have room for two kaki, IKKJ + Suruga would give you a long harvest period.
If you have never tried a persimmon, you should consider sampling a few! You may prefer astringents or even Americans, as I found that I did. There is a poster here, @thecityman, who has written some glowing reviews of Saijo that prompted me to get it. And although all kaki are pretty trees, Saijo might be the prettiest of all with its glossy dark leaves.
That said, PCNA kaki like Suruga and IKKJ are a safe bet. You can choose to eat them either crunchy or fully ripe, and I don’t know anyone who doesn’t like them (even if they might like other persimmons better).
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I grow both weeping mulberry and Gerardi, and I agree that the Gerardi has better taste and larger fruit. The weeping mulberry tastes better than most of the albas I sample in the woods around here, but the fruit are smaller than most of the local albas too. My family will eat them happily, and they’re easier to get to than my full size mulberries. I like the look of the weeping mulberry, but the deer prefer mulberry leaves to everything else in my yard and like to keep it trimmed back. So the weeping branches are always trimmed off at about 4-5ft by the browsing deer. Also, it seems to be more susceptible to a leaf spot disease, so some years it looks a little more pathetic because of that until the tree puts out a new flush of leaves. If I had to choose between them, I would grow Gerardi. The challenge for me with a dwarf tree is that I have to fence it to keep the deer away, but that may not be an issue for you. @Shibumi
I also grow IKKJ, and it is on the smaller side and slower growing than most of my kakis. It also isn’t my most productive non-astringent - my most productive non-astringents have been Wase Fuyu and Izu, but that could be based on where I planted them more than the cultivar type. I just planted Suruga, so I look forward to comparing it to other non-astringents, but the others all taste basically the same to me. My wife and family all prefer the non-astringents for fresh eating.
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No problem! Good luck!
One additional thing - the texture needed for astringent persimmons is something I can see people not liking but I’d just say that baking with them is fantastic all by itself. I grew up with banana bread but persimmon bread is on another level for me. If you can find some hachiya at the grocery this fall give them a go if you like baked goods
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I’ve seen older weeping mulberries surpass 20 ft in height
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I saw one at an old merchant house in England, it can get huge after over 200 years, so I have mine in container.
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I’m sure there is more than 1 variety of weeping mulberry (especially comparing to a much older tree, the newer offerings are likely to me much more modern crosses) , but I’m currently leaning towards girardi …
I think I’ve posted this before but just in case.
There is a tree a few miles from my house I would drive by on the way home from work each day.
One December I noticed perfectly colored golden balls on a winter bare tree. I did a double take and even turned around to drive by again, though the tree was too far from the road to see well.
I assumed the family was decorating it for the holiday season.
Now I know those were golden orange persimmons on a persimmon tree!
Inside my IE mulberry during the production period! The perimeter of my 30 year old IE is about 90’where the loaded scaffolds bend down to the ground. Underneath the berries ready for picking! A habit forming fruit! If you have the space it’s definitely the tree that just keeps on giving!
Dennis
Kent wa
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‘Teas Weeping’ is an older fruiting weeping mulberry selection. Are there others?.. Probably.
Non-fruiting male weeping mulberries have, at least in some localities in the past, been planted as street trees. They’re tough (mulberries are just big woody weeds!) but cause allergy issues due to pollen…to the extent that some municipalities have placed them on the ‘no-plant’ list.
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