Don’t really know much about Szuki. Far as I know there is nobody on the forum that has it. I would stay away from anything with male flowers. You will get enough seeds from the wilds and don’t want any more.
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It’s occurred to me, have you considered any of the hybrids? You seem to have a low tolerance for any sort of dark coloration and wrinkly texture when ripe. If you browse the pictures of ripe persimmons here, pretty much every pure American persimmon is dark and wrinkly to some degree. The hybrids give you a better chance of fruits that look like grocery store persimmons. Dar Sophiyivki and JT -02 aka Mikkusu in particular are solid choices for larger, aesthetically pleasing fruit.
I personally think that the flavor of D Virginia fruits more than justify their appearance, but that’s your call to make.
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I think that’s not totally unique to the hybrids to an extent (for size and firmness), depending on the hybrid. For example, directly comparing A118 to JT-02, I can see many similar size firm fruit. JT-02 is my only hybrid point of comparison though. But yes, JT-02 would have a different taste.
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My two cents. Note that I have tasted only 4 American varieties – H-63A, Barbra’s Blush, Dollywood, and something labeled Prok but probably not. I’ve grafted H-118 and Morris Burton but haven’t fruited them yet. But I’ve read a million reports of taste tests.
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H-63A is a “must have”, IMO. It wins taste tests outright. It is also a beautiful fruit.
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Barbra’s Blush should get strong consideration. It also wins taste tests. It is very similar to H-63A but with a softer skin.
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H-120 is a product of the same cross as H-118 and must therefore be quite similar. Some people favor one, some the other. I think H-120 gets a slight edge.
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Lehman’s Delight 100-46 is reportedly excellent. The only reason I’m not growing it is because it reportedly ripens late.
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If you haven’t already, check out this thread (and the corresponding ones for other years) for some excellent photos of the range of appearance you can get, both between varieties and within a given variety.
What I get from that is even the “prettiest” varieties can be pretty ugly in some years, locations, etc, and that the hybrids tend to have prettier fruit more consistently. That latter statement is not universally true, but it’s a decent rule of thumb.
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H-120… I remember others here stating that it is quick to fruit. Like graft it one year… it ripens fruit the next.
I wish all fruit trees did that… hate the ones that go 4 5 6 or more years producing no fruit or setting fruit only to drop it before it ripens.
That is a plus for H-120 in my book.
I will add a graft of H-120 to one of my other trees soon.
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I’m not totally against hybrids. I wanted Nikita’s Gift before I learned it may not actually be hardy to zone 6 (I prefer plants hardy to zone 5, so it was going beyond my comfort zone anyway). My understanding is that the hybrids don’t taste quite as good as natives, and between that and their less cold hardiness, I thought it best to avoid them.
England’s Nursery says JT-02 is delicious and hardy to zone 5, but these statements worry me:
“Smallish tree, not vigorous at all”
“It must be staked to support fruit load”
Plants have to be very tough to survive and thrive here, and staking things is a PITA because our soil is hard clay and rock (in summer, we can’t even get a t-post in without a gas-powered pounder).
What I’ve read is they taste different, not better or worse. In broad strokes, Asians will be more delicate and refined, Americans richer and wild, hybrids more balanced between the two.There’s at least one grower on here that prefers hybrids to both Asian and American varieties. I’ve also seen plenty of folks growing JT-02 without staking. It has a reputation as a tough tree. It’s been my most vigorous grower so far. Once it starts fruiting, the high fruit load slows it down. But it’s not going to be any less durable of a tree. It sets a lot of fruit for it’s size.
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I will second that. No worries about getting it to grow. Most of the improved varieties can fruit so heavily that they could end up with some broken branches. Getting a good solid trunk started first is a good idea. The problem in my location is late spring freezes can cause fruiting issues or burn back. Possibly not an issue in 6B Missouri.
I have one JT-02 that is fairly large (one of my biggest trees), and it dropped all of it’s fruit. It bloomed well before any wild males. In another location close to a wild male, a JT-02 bloomed at the same time, and has quite a bit of fruit.
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JT-02 has been a vigorous and productive tree for me here in central NC, but the fruit usually gets unappetizing black streaks and blotches on the skin. Doesn’t hurt the flavor any, but it isn’t as easy to get people to try them for the first time. The texture of the pulp is also very watery and not as appealing as Nikita’s Gift or Sestronka (which both have aesthetically pleasing orange fruit. I think JT-02 is best sliced and dehydrated.
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I think a lot depends on the maturity of the rootstock. I grafted JT-02 to an established DV tree and got 6’ of growth, followed the next year by a small crop, followed the next year by a large crop (~75 ripe total on two grafts). I had to support the branches to prevent breaking. On the other hand, the same spring I grafted JT-02 to a small DV seedling and got ~3-4’ of growth per year and no crop until this year when there are a relative few fruits on only 2 of the branches. These trees are ~40’ apart in virtually identical conditions.
I expect the JT-02 tree to be a good grower but I don’t expect it to get more than 15-20’ tall.
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Thanks for all the info on JT-02, everyone! I feel like I can make a good, informed decision on which persimmons I want now. This thread and your advice and opinions have been very, very helpful!
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Happy to be of service! We can be cantankerous and opinionated at times, but it’s all in pursuit of truth and delicious fruit.
Can’t wait to hear about your continued persimmon adventures.
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I have Prok and Yates as well. The first couple of years were astringent but learned thereafter to leave on until falling and jelly like inner texture - BEST flavor then. I have rock under the branches so can pick fresh dropped fruit and eat immediately. May try jam this yr.
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In Boise Zone 6A, Nikita’s Gift failed the winter.
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Nikitas Gift has way to much kaki in it for zone 6a long term. Sophies gift might be a better choice if uou want an interspecific hybrid like that. The hybrid interspecifics are all dicey in 6a.
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What was your winter low?
Hi all - thanks for this great thread - very informative. I have a question that is tangential but I didn’t see it addressed on a forum search. Is it possible to grow an American persimmon in a container, and if so, are any varieties discussed above better suited to that? I understand American persimmons have a tap root, so maybe containers are not possible. If not, do any of the favored varieties have a smaller growth habit or are more amenable to keeping small with pruning?
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One more thing. Maybe try to choose a variety/cultivar that is precocious, so you are not waiting years to get fruits. Something like Lehman’s Delight or EarlyJewel/H-118, start producing fruit faster than other varieties out there.
You can always add another American Persimmon tree later of a different variety/cultivar that might take longer to begin fruiting.
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Consider this an addendum to my post (#63) above. This year, I’ve picked and tasted a bunch of Dollywood, in addition to H63A and Barbra’s Blush. It has proven early enough to be useful here, only slightly behind the other two. Moreover, it has proven to have other attractive features.
Dollywood:
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The fruit is relatively large. Normally this is not so important to me but with American persimmons, I’m finding the pulp must more appealing than the pith, skin, or seeds (if any). A bigger fruit has relatively more pulp.
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The fruit has a shiny, durable skin, usually free from wrinkles and blemish. Moreover the area under the calyx is usually clean and white – no gaps, no bugs, no mold or rot. None of the black stuff I often find in American persimmon fruit.
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The fruit hangs well on the tree, ripening free of astringency. It is usually possible to pick the ripe fruit with the calyx attached. When it falls, it tends to detach cleanly
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The fruit is tasty. It’s not as strongly flavored as the other varieties, but it’s not bland either.
Coming into this season, I was fully prepared to be disappointed by Dollywood. But I’ve been very pleasantly surprised.
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