Here’s more on the Autumn Olive as an invasive species, at least in Indiana. I think I’ll steer clear and look for other small trees/shrubs that fix nitrogen.
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SteveMD,
I agree Goumi would be a better choice because of the autumn olives tendency to be an invasive in many places.
Here, where many autumn olive were planted as part of the mentioned soil and water conservation district;s beautiful plan, but I’ve never seen it it dominate in any habitat besides very disturbed soil where it was intentionally established. The worse invasive shrub in our woods is probably barberry. I’ve seen areas where they’be become almost the entire understory.
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I encourage interested folks to watch The Permaculture Orchard film in its entirety (~2 hrs long). Stefan goes into much greater detail of his process. It was very influential on me when I laid out my orchard (each row represents a different harvesting time [July, early-mid Aug, mid-late Aug, etc], in case I decide to have a small u-pick). Also check out Michael Phillips’ book The Holistic Orchard (also The Organic Apple Grower). I have a very diverse small orchard of ~50 semi-dwarf fruit plus many more berries, herbs and support species. I don’t spray any chemicals and though its still young its promising in an area with very high disease- and insect-pressure. These guys aren’t in California or Eastern Washington but in Quebec and New Hampshire respectively and are having great success with a beyond organic approach. Phillips’ Holistic Sprays are a foundation in my young orchard. I’m also glad to see talk of chickens! They are great insectivores. I rotate my chicken tractors between the orchard rows the entire growing season, but plan to get some electronet fencing to allow them controlled access beneath the trees at certain times of the season. I love learning to better utilize my chickens on the homestead (check out Permaculture Chickens film by Justin Rhodes for more info on that).
I am blessed with rich, black clay loam soil (that is moisture-retentive and well-draining) and have gotten away with never irrigating my trees beyond watering them in at planting time since I’ve been planting for the last 3 years. Spring/summer rains may not always cooperate, but despite having higher insect/disease issues here than in Texas or Colorado, I’m so thankful for having great soil and not having to irrigate. Despite the fertile soil Autumn Olives are quite invasive on the property. My MIL likes to eradicate them but they don’t bother me. They distract birds from my fruit, fix nitrogen, sometimes taste okay to nibble on, and I love the beguiling scent of their blossoms in May. I plan to move some to my orchard windbreak and should try grafting some of the improved varieties onto them. I never thought of grafting goumi to them (and I keep failing at rooting cuttings from my goumi in TX). I’ll give that a shot! Thanks for this thread Clark!
I hope to hear an update from you in a few years. I have run across many people further south than Quebec or New Hampshire with a similar position as yours and I know of zero of them who have succeeded long-term with a mature fruiting orchard - while Quebec / New Hampshire is not California, it is still much lower pest pressure than the middle US. Basically I hear optimism in the beginning and then I don’t hear anything more from them. Given the dozens of such people I have run into over the years I have become skeptical about whether these programs will work outside of low pest pressure areas. I do hope it works for you and I would like to copy it if it does. Chickens are a great idea, if I could have them in my suburban yard I would get some.
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Scott maybe in the burbs you could get the neighborhood to go for peacocks instead of chickens. The zoos have them roaming freely in many large cities. Here is a peafowl farm website if your interested Bow's Peafowl Farm
My one criticism of Michael Phillips is that he doesn’t have plum curculio in his orchards, a major pest in most other areas. I bought his book hoping for a good answer on control for that, and didn’t get it 
Peafowl? Having gardened next to a family that raises peafowl free-range, I would strongly advise against those fruit-destroying birds! Not only will they fly into trees to eat apples they will break branches doing so. They are also hell on tomatoes ect. They are also loud, but I’m guessing that is just the peacock.
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Huh?!? A few pages are devoted to this pest in his first book, The Apple Grower.
Here’s more-
http://www.groworganicapples.com/organic-orcharding-articles/curculio-riffs.php
http://www.groworganicapples.com/organic-orcharding-articles/surround-kaolin-clay.php/
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Levers,
Who knew! My neighbor has them and they have been well behaved so far. I’m going to keep an eye on them now. They live about a mile from me so they don’t come here. They seem so innocent! They play on my dirt road a lot and I wait for them to move out of the way when I drive by. These are not huge birds so maybe their mischief is based on type of peafowl they are.
Hm, I stand corrected!
Scott,
I will certainly keep you guys posted. I realize being chemical-free is MUCH more management-intensive. I’m still wrapping my head around what the pest and disease pressures are in this area. Then I gotta figure out timing of sprays, etc. My holistic spray includes worm compost tea + kelp + fish + neem + molasses + EM. I have used herbal sprays and used whey/cultured milk sprays to combat fungal issues (and have had good preliminary success). It realize it may be a couple decades before I have it all honed in, but I plan to keep folks posted along my journey.
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The permaculture video had a follow up to answer questions he had received after the 2 hour version, and he honestly painted a not-so-rosey picture. The year following the ‘abundance’ saw an increase in insect and rodent damage. He shows the mishappen fruit and reports a much lower yield. That seemed to throw him a curve ball and he acknowledged that he is still learning.
I personally have not observed where planting ‘diversity’ reduces insect pressure. You just have a different mix of insects but not necessarily less of the ‘bad’ ones. To me it follows the saying: It you build it, they will come.
Not sayin’ permaculture doesn’t have value in some aspect of fruit growing…well, watch the followup video.
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I just watched the entire documentary. It taught me a few things and has very interesting concepts, but I am skeptical and it seems like many of you are just as skeptical and are even debunking most of the concepts for Mid-Atlantic climates, which is where I’m at.
I do however wonder about two things:
- Does a constant source of pollen/flowers throughout the year really encourage insect predators, which will then lower insect pressure?
- Doesn’t nitrogen fixing plants only release the gained nitrogen back into the soil when it decomposes it’s leaves, branches, etc…? I believe “chop and drop” is the term.
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Ross, I think nitrogen fixing refers to roots that accumulate nitrogen: http://www.oregonclover.org/uses/nitrogenfixation/
Re: beneficial insects and flowers, in my orchard I only see a significant effect from two beneficial insects, ladybugs and parasitic wasps. The other beneficial insects do not build up the numbers to make much of a dent. With my ladybug population once it gets going (from all the aphids) I am pretty much good for the rest of the season as the aphids are fully under control from midsummer on. So for me the only reason why more pollen could help would be for the parasitic wasps. Since the adults rely on nectar for food there is a real advantage of having enough flowers for them. My stinkbug population has been greatly reduced in the last few years and I am seeing more of the small wasps so something seems to be working there. I have a vast number of random flowering plants around so I expect I am doing OK on the nectar supply. Oh, one more beneficial I see a lot of is wasps. They are regularly scouting my peach tree shoot tips looking for juicy OFM larvae and given their numbers I expect they are making a good impact (and also sometimes a bad impact on the fruit later).
@kshaunfield, I look forward to discussing how these treatments are working for you. I am skeptical but am always looking for better alternatives. I ragged on neem after having no luck with it but now it is my peach tree borer cure, painting it on the lower trunks solved my problem.
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I think what Ross is saying (and if not, I’m thinking it now myself) is that nitrogen fixing plants fix nitrogen largely if not almost entirely to their own benefit. When I grow a clover cover crop in the garden, for example, I don’t know that there’s a benefit to any other plants growing along with the clover. The chief nitrogen benefit comes when I disc the clover in and kill it, at which point the nitrogen accumulated in the clover plant is released for the potential benefit of other plants (with soil microorganisms as intermediaries.)
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Scott,
My question is in regards to when the nitrogen is released into the soil. Doesn’t the nitrogen fixer have to decompose first for it to release the majority of the nitrogen?
Yes. Exactly.
This is a very nice link on beneficial insects. http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/38715/pnw550.pdf
I’m just not sure which flowering plants I should add.
The nitrogen fixation happens in root nodules, and the bulk of the nitrogen gain is from the roots. There is additional benefit from mowing it and leaving it in place, but from what I read it sound like the bulk of the N gain is from the roots and not the tops. See e.g. http://extension.psu.edu/plants/crops/soil-management/cover-crops/management-of-red-clover-as-a-cover-crop where there is some mention of this.