I’m definitely dealing with something else then, or a combination. I do want to try Surround, but sourcing it seems to be tough with killer shipping.
I bought a bag (50lb maybe or possibly25lb) 6-7 or so years ago and still have about 1/4 left, so depending on how much you need to cover and what plants, it can actually work out pretty reasonable per year. Of course back then shipping was a lot cheaper.
Since it is just a type of kaolin clay, supposedly finely milled and screened for better use in a sprayer, you can also just look for other options for kaolin which is the main clay used in porcelain and other high fire white clays. I know some people have done this successfully, although maybe it requires cleaning out the occasional clogged nozzle. I’m not sure where you live, but it could be worth it to see if there is a clay supply place near you where you can pick up some kaolin to try in your sprayer.
For instance, Clayworks supplies has locations in Richmond, Alexandria and Baltimore. If you wanted to chose from their offerings, I’d suggest the Georgia Kaolin first, but there may be someone very knowledgable there you can ask. Basically you want the most consistently small particle size available. Here is what they have in Baltimore and probably the same other places. You can get a small bag to test, but if you use it on many things the big bags are definitely the best deal.
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Thank you for the really good information! I pulled up a bunch of threads here that have the same concern as me, I guess we all find shipping close to the price of the product a bit jarring at first. 
Honestly, at this point, this will probably be my research for next year. I’m very curious how far a gallon with 3 cups of surround would get me on 3 raised beds with pretty tightly packed veggies, 2 peaches, an apple, a bush cherry, and a few raspberry and blueberry plants to get a gist of how long the 25lb bag would last.
Ah, the joys of growing fruit. 
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Did the people with success use a sprayer? I’ve not heard any positive stories myself. Maybe there are some kinds that work well, but its hard to know which will work since they are not designed for spraying and can have some large particles in the mix.
PS I just looked and this stuff is supposedly 3 microns which is very fine .. maybe if you get the right stuff it could work.
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The Japanese Beatles are back in my area and already wreaking havoc. The recent rain seemed to wash off my surround. If the high is 84 tomorrow, is there concern doing either a Surround+Copper or Surround+Sulfur spray? I keep reading about phytotoxicity above 85 degrees, and we will be cutting it close tomorrow.
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I’ve seen people saying they are using it with a sprayer, but I don’t know how much they are spraying or what type of particle size they are getting. I was a professional potter at one point in my life and mixed clay from raw materials when I was an apprentice. I’ve worked with several raw kaolin types and they seem very fine and consistent, which is what you want in a finer clay like porcelain. But I don’t know how each would actually work in a sprayer. The nice thing of a local ceramic supply place is you can just spend a few bucks for a pound to see if it works. The kaolin you linked to looks like it could be a good candidate as well.
That said, I’ll be sticking with Surround just because I’m spraying a fair amount and I don’t want to take chances with the nozzle gumming up, etc.
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Do you think the surround is better than the standard poison sprays?
Thank you all, I will actually give a pound or so a try of what you linked Scott. I know my mileage may vary, but at the price it is worth a try. At least until I feel like sourcing some surround. I’ll try it on my eggplants first and see how it does. I’m aiming for small scale here, maybe even my Meyer Lemon since fruits are setting.
From my understanding Robert, I would go out on a limb and say that it may be apples and oranges comparing surround and traditional poisons. Physical barrier as opposed to chemical barrier. So better may be subjective, but after doing a bit of research surround seems to really work for folks who prefer organic gardening maybe even better than neem or sulfur, and they can work together which is nice.
But again, I am very unqualified to say as of yet!
Thank you all again for your help. This is going to be good information for next year since I am anticipating 3rd year crops from a lot of my fruit.
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Great, please come back here and tell us how it works! It would be fantastic if there was a reliable source for smaller amounts that could be sprayed. Gardens Alive used to sell smaller amounts of Surround but no more.
@Robert yes the main advantage of Surround is you are not spraying poisons. I’m in a suburban neighborhood with kids all around and don’t want to spray any bug poisons. I’d use poisons if there was no downside to them, its a lot easier.
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Edible landscaping has surround if you ever want to drive out there
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@scottfsmith or really anyone, do you have a good rule of thumb with respect to how many trees per gallon you can cover when spraying surround? I ask because I have 60 trees (most M.111, M.7, and G.890) and filling up the two gallon sprayer multiple times is getting old. Trying to figure out how big of a sprayer to buy. To date I have been organic only (surround, copper, sulphur, neem oil/dormant spray)
60 trees you need a lot more than a 2 gallon sprayer. I have more than that have to be sprayed and my 15 gallon tank is way to small. I need one a lot bigger, but the one I have was cheap and fits nicely on my 4wheeler rack. For 60 trees I wouldn’t go any smaller than the 15 gallon tank. If you have a riding mower you can get a small mower trailer to put it in and pull it around. The next size up comes with it’s own wheels, but steps up a lot in price. My 15 gal was a little less than a $100.
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With that many trees the bigger the better. I have a 9-gallon sprayer and it is sooo much nicer than the 4 or 5 gallon ones I used before. I can do the whole orchard with only one tank now, it is usually more like 1.5 tanks but enough got frozen out this year to lighten the burden. Bigger sprayers can also be more powerful. Mine has a motor and is putting out 3-4 times as much water per minute so I can move much faster.
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How does your spray regimen change if a tree did not have fruit set for a given year? I assume it does not change much at all? My trees are all still young (1-2 years in ground, 4-6 years old) and I am in the state where some are not having fruit set due to immaturity and some (nectarines, peaches, apricots) due to frosts.
There is a night and day difference for me. Non-fruiting apples only need one myclo spray after petal fall (on the neighboring trees if it is too young to bloom), for scab and CAR. No other sprays are given on a young apple. Pears need a sulfur at delayed dormant for pear leaf blister mite, plus the post-bloom myclo for scab. Peaches only need tips sprayed a couple times with some moth killer, Bt, spinosad etc. This is assuming you see tip damage, there is no need to spray if you see no damage because you have no moths. I also do a dormant l/s and oil on all trees, for peaches/plums in particular peach scale is super common for me so the dormant spray is important there.
The above has been tuned for the particular issues I have, you may have other issues. I don’t think it’s so bad to wait until something shows up to control for it, but don’t delay at all once you see it or it will rapidly escalate. Also once you see it keep on top of it. Some things will show up but then dial back and become less important to control, for example bacterial spot was a huge problem for me but now its just a minor annoyance and I don’t explicitly spray for it now. Aphids were a huge problem on my plums but I now have enough ladybugs that the aphids are only minor pests so they also get no control any more.
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Not really a review of the product yet, but lighting fast shipping for the kaolin clay, already out for delivery. Very pleased with that speed considering how hit or miss USPS is sometimes! Shipped from Ohio from the looks of it.
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Is anyone growing Zestar in this area? Curious when you have typically harvested?
I am assuming this is a late July harvest, but I am shocked by how large the handful of apples on my tree are getting. I assumed harvest is not more than a month off, but apples are still fully green.
Yikes, I hadn’t been paying much attention to the weather and just looked at next week in the 10-day. Wednesday through Saturday are scorchers. I messed up my back last Monday and it is hard to get out and water, so I better be hitting the ibuprofen to get out and water this week. If we really hit 104 that will be the hottest I’ve seen here in years.
I haven’t looked at my tomatoes closely to examine fruit set, but hopefully they have enough fruit already developing since nothing will set in this coming heat wave.
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Does anyone have any apple tree varieties that have done surprisingly well from a disease resistance perspective in our general area (Northern Virginia for me)? Zestar would be a perfect example for me.
I think we all know that trees like Freedom, Enterprise, Liberty, and Arkansas Black should be more disease resistant than others and trees like Honeycrisp are much harder to grow, but curious if folks have something that has really done well with an organic and minimal spray schedule?
For background, I am looking to get some scion wood to bench graft next spring (along with what I already have). I know I want to get Freedom. I was very curious about Sweet Sixteen. Looking for recommendations.
Here is what I have to date:
Arkansas Black
Crown Empire
Dabinett
Enterprise
Fireside (Has done horribly, and plan on grafting over it or completely removing it)
Franklin Cider Apple
Golden Delicious
Golden Russet
Golden Sentinel
Goldrush
Granny Smith
Liberty
McIntosh
Nittany
Nova Spy
NovaMac
Pristine
Red Delicious
Red Fuji
Royal Gala
Scarlett Sentinel
Snowsweet
Stayman
Zestar
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Anyone in the DMV have Arctic Star nectarine to tell me when it ripens? Have 2 on my second leaf tree that I’m watching. Internet saying it ripens somewhere around -16 to -20, so maybe it’s 1-2 weeks to ripe? Any trick to telling when? Smell? Gets softer? Falls off?