Unfortunately I don’t have pic of the rot right now but I will take pic and upload this Sunday. These are the pictures from last fall of just the trees.
The square in the middle with flowers is vegetable garden. The orchard is on the far left. And then there is another strip of trees behind the shed on the far right. I know these pictures don’t help
, I will upload more this weekend.
The “Do My Own” folks took the safe route when asked a similar question:
My assumption would be that “other ingredients” on a product label can’t be anything important/dangerous/powerful otherwise they wouldn’t be allowed to characterize them simply as “other”. I’d be interested to know more about that though, what the product labeling rules allow for “other”. For a liquid {whatever}-icide for instance I’ve always assumed it’s probably just water.
If Company A’s label claims active ingredient “Chemical X” will kill [Brown/Blue/Red Rot]. And Company B’s label says {Exact same active ingredient at same %} will kill [Blue/Red Rot]. That doesn’t mean B’s product won’t also kill brown rot… I suspect it just means Company B didn’t pay $BIG to have a lab test their product against that specific pest and issue a report on it’s effectiveness. Probably because of $BIG expense and the hoped for returns.
I think you have GLS that turned into bitter rot on fruit.
You can just read the last few paragraph of this article below re.treatment. You already have Mancozeb. You need to add Captan. At least, these are a less expensive approach than Pristine, considering you have not many trees.
I also think you may need to spray more often and at the right time.
Captan needs acidified water to be effective. People add a tbsp of vinegar per gallon of water in the mixture.
I would second trying Captan. I think the main issue is you need to do more sprays into the Summer and maybe reduce the spray interval. Captan is pretty commonly used by commercial growers to control Summer rots, flyspeck and sooty blotch. You can buy it from Schlabach’s in small quantities (1lb) for the Captan 50% and Captan 80% comes in 6lb bags for larger growers. The 6lb bags are about $50. It’s also available from other suppliers at similar prices.
With Captan you need to make sure the spray water is acidic. At a pH of 8 half the Captan is destroyed in 10 minutes. A pH of 5 is ideal with 5-7 being ok if your going to spray right after you mix the Captan into the water. You can use vinegar or citric acid to lower the pH. I use citric acid which is found with canning supplies in retail stores. I use a 1/4 teaspoon of citric acid in 2 gallons of spray water. The amount needed will vary with the pH of your tap water. For more info on spray water pH take a look at this-
First Enterprise apple - #25 by mroot
As far as Pageant Intrinsic being the same as Pristine there is no way for the average consumer to tell this. To tell this for sure you would need a lot of technical information which probably isn’t readily available and a technical background that allows you to interpret that information.
To give an example, some time ago I worked for a chemical company that made Hydrochloric acid and fumed silica. There were two grades of acid- steel grade and food grade. Steel grade had more metals and higher sulfites so you wouldn’t want to use it to adjust the pH of food products. On the other hand for the fumed silica the standard grade and pharmaceutical grade were the same. The only difference is pharmaceutical grade required more testing and record keeping.
It’s also common in the chemical industry to have lower grade materials with more impurities. Or a formulation accept products with more impurities if it’s intended with industrial use rather than food use. It is quite possible that Pageant Intrinsic is a product that was developed simply as a way to dispose of off quality Pristine that can’t be sold for use on fruits due to impurities being too high. As a consumer you have no way to tell. So I think it would be wise not to use Pageant Intrinsic on fruit even if you are ok with over looking the legal issues.
I have ordered a 8 oz Southern Ag Captan 50WP from Amazon that will arrive tomorrow. I’ll use that first. Meantime I’ll place order on Schlabach. It’s 80WP 6.25 for $49. I wasn’t nowhere near Schlabach catalog earlier. Plus it will take at least a week or two for it to be delivered. I have looked around before I placed that small order from Amazon. About 2 months ago I placed order for 6.25 lb Captan 80WP at Martin’s Produce Supplies but they ended up refunding my money because it was never back in stock. I hope Schlabach has it.
So I guess I will not purchase Pageant Intrinsic and just wait until I feel like I am willing to spend the money for Pristine I’ll see first how Captan works this year to stop the damage.
Keystone Pest Solutions is another good cimpany to buy chemicals. Since you are in PA and Penn State extension services are very good, it won’t hurt to give it a call. Maybe, they can tell you exactly what and when to spray for bitter rot, how often, etc. Good luck.
Sounds like a good plan. I will caution you that once rots are established they are hard to control. You may have limited success this year. Next year you will know in advance what you are up against and will be better able to keep ahead of them.
I know the discussion is pretty much and no matter what kind of rot it is, the control is pretty much the same and I’m going to spray Captan today, but I am finally at the orchard and took pictures and here it is. Not bad, actually. These 5 were all the rotten apples I could find so far. It’s all from Macintosh. I didn’t really see any from other trees but I also thinned heavily last week.
I would cut the apples in half and see if the lesion has a V shaped cross section. As shown in this bulletin.
If it does you have bitter rot. I would also look for apples that only have small rot lesions and post pics of them since sometimes it’s easier to identify a rot earlier in the life cycle.
I looked at the dwarf Honeycrisp picture. Is the tree staked? I didn’t see a stake. You mentioned that you had a dwarf tree that fell over. I was bit concerned since all dwarf apple trees need to be permanently staked due to the brittleness of the roots and the high crop loads that they can produce early in the life of the tree. If it’s not staked I would suggest staking it with a 8 foot t-stake.
Sorry, I have been busy over holiday weekend. So I gathered more rotten fruits and cut in half. I am still not sure if that was bitter rot. The first (top) row might be?? Anyway I have sprayed with Captan.
I haven’t staked the honeycrisp yet. But I will. I always stake. I have been staking the early peaches and nectarines. Did you suggest to use 8 ft T-post? I usually just use wooden stake but it’s hard to find the correct size/height. I always have to cut to the correct length.
I actually have lost 2 dwarf apple trees. One was Gala, fell due to snow in October a couple years ago when the tree still have leaves. Second one was Golden Delicious last year when it was loaded, around August. But I think that tree had problem already, might be girdled by something. I replaced with semi dwarf one this year. Never dwarf tree again.
In the apples there are plenty of V shaped lesions so I am pretty sure it’s bitter rot. Some of the lesions don’t have the V shape but the shape isn’t always distinct. It also possible that you have a different rot present too but in any case the remedy is to do more sprays a year.
I usually use a 8 ft metal t-stake which is also called a t-post. I use the stronger ones that have lugs all along one side. They are usually used for fencing. You can use wood posts too. I think anything in the 8-10 feet range would work well if you put it in the ground 2 feet. I would attach the tree at 3-4 points along the stake. With dwarfs I think you want to stake as early as possible and certainly before you get good crops. I stake all of my dwarfs when I plant them.
I have to imagine that wooden stakes don’t last all that long. I like to use chain link top rail (10.5 feet long at Home Depot and Lowes) which is galvanized and lasts pretty well. I agree with mroot that it is easier to stake at planting time, though a big part of that is how many rocks you have in your yard. My yard is full of them, so it is a nightmare to add them later. I added them at another property last year and ran into almost no rocks which made it a breeze (using a 5’ iron digging bar to make the hole and pack rocks around the post).
I think what both of you suggesting is permanent stake at/near the base of the tree. I don’t know why I never thought of that. What I usually do was just trying to support the branches that are loaded with fruits, when the fruits are sizing up like right now. I think it will be a nightmare to try to put a T-post now so close to the tree. First, my soil is very rocky. Second, I am afraid I am going to hurt the root. But we made a really big hole (with backhoe) when we planted the trees so maybe most of the rocks are thrown away. Maybe I should give it a try. Thank you for the suggestions mroot and BobVance.
If you used a backhoe to dig the hole, I bet you have a good chance. I’d start maybe 6" away from the tree and keep jamming the bar into the ground until you get 2-2.5’ down. You can avoid any large roots at the surface and change spots if you hit something that makes the tree move (probably a large root, though this happens very rarely for me unless I am specifically trying to remove a tree). The permanent stake would also help protect against snow, which a seasonal stake may not.
One negative of staking is that it makes it harder to completely net the tree. You can’t wrap the bottom of the net securely around the trunk, as there is a gap between the trunk and the post. It’s not something that came up for me until this year when I tried out a net, but it is worth considering for trees where it may be needed like cherries.
I am not worried about netting the trees. I got more than enough cherries this year without netting. The cherry trees are getting sooo big it will be impossible to net. Even when the trees were small, something always break into it. I used that green American netting but it didn’t work and it was such a hassle to put it. But maybe the birds and squirrels haven’t found them yet, as I have one cherry tree about 100 ft away, outside the fenced orchard area, that was stripped clean.
I wish I have the digging bar you used. Otherwise I might have to stand on 8 ft ladder to pound it into the ground, on a slope!
That’s me standing on 8 ft ladder picking cherry 2 weeks ago.