The idea of pawpaw fruit leather is absolutely abhorrent even without trying it. One, it oxidizes. It’s not going to look good. Two, the flesh gets absolutely rank when exposed to slow heating. Three, the condition of the “leather” is going to be equivalent to eating a completely blackened pawpaw due to the heat accelerating the ripening process.
Logistically, it’s like trying to dry the thickest banana pudding. You probably could freeze dry it. The flesh from a green peak-ripe pawpaw would probably hold up without having to worry about accelerated ripening and fermentation, but like traditional dry slow dehydration… even the idea sounds absolutely terrible.
Neal’s friend gave the approval for that one. @tonyOmahaz5 got naming rights for that seedling because he liked it and thought it was worthwhile. “Cherimowest.” I told him he could name it anything he wanted, didn’t even have to include “west” in the name - “Cherimoya Pop” or “Pineapple Fizz” or “Bumblegum Bomb” for all I care. He could name it after his dog… or cat… or kid…wife… mother whatever. >_< Tony wanted “Cherimowest,” so that’s what it will be unless Tony changes his mind.
There is one here that I like and I want to name… but I need some more time to ponder something descriptive.
@Bradybb All the seedlings here which are mature now are what would be considered 3rd generation crosses, parentage from Peterson and or other cultivars. They are named in the plot based on location to make it easier to find and reference… well until they get names if they are worthwhile, which all are not imo.
How big of a plot and how many seedlings are you working with, if you don’t mind me asking? Very excited that others are taking up the sword and continuing the breeding process that began with Peterson Pawpaws. KSU, Red Fern, and now you have built on the success of Neal, and I’m sure others will also follow.
Starting with a sample size of thousands to find just a few seems to be the best way to find a good pawpaw. This seems to be the trend, although starting with great genetics like the ones you mentioned is an even better way to go if possible. Time is clearly the largest challenge.
That’s why for me personally, I am (in an ideal world) planning to select for high vigor as one of my traits to focus on in breeding if I get there. That being said, Chapell and Mango are what I plan to use to make crosses from as they are known to have great flavor and are the fastest growing currently available.
Knowing that both may produce fruit within 4 years under good conditions instead of 7-10 like many others makes the generational gap that much smaller. I’m in my early 30s now, so having the ability to trial seedlings within 7 years (grow 4, fruit for 3) instead of 10 years (grow 7,fruit for 3) gives a pretty significant advantage from the perspective of weeding through to find the best trees. Neal has done a great service paving the way for others to build on his work, as I alluded to above.
High vigor doesn’t necessarily mean that it will fruit faster, it has to be precocious enough as well. My Mango pawpaw is my largest tree but it has yet to bloom, whereas my Shenandoah started blooming within it’s first year in ground at 1.5 ft tall. The Mango finally started putting out dormant flower buds this summer so I’m hopeful to get fruit from it next year. @mamuang has had the same issue with her Mango pawpaw tree. My Mango has only been slightly faster growing than my next largest, Allegheny, which produced a lot of fruit for me this year. I wish I could find information regarding precocity for pawpaw varieties to see if that’s typical for Mango and how much other varieties vary in that regard.
The rootstock they grow on also will have an impact on vigor, though we don’t have much control over that. Maybe seeds of certain varieties tend to grow faster than others, though that would take some time to figure out.
Neal used Sunflower seeds because of better vigor as rootstock for the grafted pawpaws he personally sold, if I remember what was explained to me here. I haven’t seen much that has suggested Chapelle and Mango in particular are precocious, but then again, maybe you got winners in the rootstock lottery. I’ve seen both fruit at about the same age as others, sure tree size was different despite age. It’s always hard to tell since sample sizes are usually low at each planting and each rootstock (in theory) should genetically distinct.
If you’re only screening fruit and not tree habit, it’s much faster to grow out seedlings and then take scion to be grafted on a mature pawpaw. You probably could reduce fruit evaluation down to as little 3 years. 1 year for seed germination and scionwood. 1 year for grafting. 1 year for fruiting.
There are probably 25-30 seedlings here… I haven’t counted them all. I don’t care for many of them. Bleh. I’ve tasted my fill of experiments. >_< The lot here is a residential one. Just imagine someone who dedicated their entire backyard to pawpaws and I do mean entire, from the moment you step out the backdoor.
@TrilobaTracker Thoughts on Maria’s Joy - lightly fruity in a way different from Allegheny. Soft texture. Very smooth and creamy almost to the point of oily, yet still juicy. Texture more like a very light pudding than a custard or flan texture. Some coarseness near skin, very aromatic. A lot of pawpaws have phenolic flavors in the background often strongly. I can taste it in the foreground with Maria’s Joy but it’s very faint and doesn’t linger. Clean finish on the palate.
You’re always full of useful information. Thanks JustPeachy!
That’s good to know about the Sunflower seed vigor. I planted seeds from the varieties I tasted from a festival a few years ago and noted that the Shenandoah seeds were high vigor, whereas the Allegheny seeds were really low vigor. Doesn’t necessarily mean much with a low sample size, but I’ll try growing from my own seeds this year to see if I see a similar or different pattern.
I’m not 100% positive on that. I try to hoover up as much information as it’s force-fed to me, but I don’t remember everything. I’ll have to email Neal again to check.
I do know that Sunflower shows better early vigor in the KSU rootstock study, but everything leveled out in growth after the 5th or 6th year.
The things I do for friends… Time to process 30+ pounds of pawpaw for seed… I need a gasmask… … @TrilobaTracker (Btw, this is all Peterson plus NC-1, mango, etc… no wild stuff).
@TrilobaTracker@TJ_westPA Taytoo all fell today. Had a friend from NaFex taste Taytoo and Maria’s Joy with me. Limited sampling because we only have a few fruits of each.
Taytoo - Sugar rush. Fruity, but less so than Allegheny. It has some richness that Allegheny doesn’t have with brown sugarish notes. I taste some phenolic flavors in the background, which aren’t particularly strong. My friend perceives no bitterness.
I gave a Taytoo to Ken, Neal’s friend, who says that it is less complex in than Allegheny in fruity flavors. Smooth, creamy, and just juicy enough. Notes phenolic flavors but not like NC-1 with some bitterness. Fleeting coconut flavors.
Even though Taytoo is an older selection, I think it can stand pretty well up to Maria’s Joy, which is newer 2nd gen. I think Taytoo may be one of the best first gen cultivars I’ve tasted.
We also tried a seedling that finally bore fruit this year. We’ll probably call it “Ohio1” for now. It’s a sucker clone from a friend in Ohio who has the original. Ken says it tastes like a more flavorful Shenandoah. Low seed to flesh ratio. Light flavor. Little perceivable phenolic flavors. Light pale yellow flesh similar to Shenandoah, a shade or so darker.
I haven’t eaten that many Cherimoya, so it’s hard for me to make that comparison. I am more familiar with soursop and sweetsop. I’m not sure about similarities between “Cherimowest” and other pawpaws. Cherimowest (to me) has some taste similarities with Wabash and maybe another seedling here called “East.” They each have their own subtleties. Sometimes it’s hard to pick them apart after you sit down and eat through 10-15 cultivars at the same time. After a while, the lines start to blur, especially after you pile through stronger flavored pawpaws like Susquehanna in the same sitting.
Several people on this forum have tasted “West”/“Cherimowest.” Each will have their own opinions, though.
All the pawpaws have a singular common thread where they all taste like pawpaws (no surprise). I think it’s more of us picking up hints of flavor. Just like when people describe some russeted apples tasting a lot like pears. It’s still a apple. It just has hints of pear flavor. It’s not an apple that tastes like a pear. It’s an apple with pear flavors. That’s my take on it anyways.
[quote="JustPeachy, post:600, topic:8374, full:true]
All the pawpaws have a singular common thread where they all taste like pawpaws (no surprise). I think it’s more of us picking up hints of flavor.
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I agree. They do start to run together. The more I have the less I think they taste like other fruit and just have flavors in common with tropical fruit. Others have no tropical taste and just have that pawpaw flavor. Very hard to describe. I really enjoyed the Wabash and Susquehanna I picked up at England’s orchard. I’m glad I’m growing them!
I finally sat down yesterday to start looking at the number of packages I sent. 15 packages varying 3-10 pounds. 10% of that weight is packing material. I guess I have sent out about 75 pounds of pawpaws over the course of 3 weeks mostly to friends. I think about 2-3 more packages should go in the mail next week to a few more friends. I didn’t even realize I send out so many pawpaws this year. The last of the harvest will probably fall by the end of the month.
Yet, so many pawpaws go to waste even still. I dumped 15 pounds of rotten pawpaw in the backfield hoping they will germinate in the spring and processed another 20 pounds of overipe fruit for seed.
Thoughts on packing for anyone who wants to mail. Bubblewrap isn’t a good idea. It’s not permeable and just accelerates ripening more. Crumpled newspaper seems to works better. Lasagna layering is a good idea. It’s almost like trying to figure out how to pack raw eggs and shipping them cross country without having the shell crack. Overnight shipping way way better than 2nd day (@SMC_zone6@bradybb thanks for being my first guinea pigs on GF).
Perfect segue to the post I’ve been meaning to do.
JustPeachy sent me several pawpaws too, and I wanted to close the loop by giving my thoughts. Shenandoah- very mild, not particularly sweet. Good texture. Similar to JBG perhaps - banana, vanilla but not strongly either one. Honestly these came off as somewhat bland to me. Jury is still out. Mango - on softer side, sweet. Definitely has a unique taste in there. I can see how folks would say it’s mango-like. Could also be described as creamsicle or orange push-up. This variety had the most prominent special flavor and frankly made me wish I had it in my orchard. Very cool. Wabash - very tutti-frutti flavored, maybe a little vanilla. Has a note that is hard to describe, somewhat plum or berry-like. excellent pawpaw. Not the “creme brûlée” that I’ve heard about. NC -1 - very small so hard to judge but nothing bad here. Just an average pawpaw. Allegheny - very similar to Shenandoah but sweeter. Also very small fruits so hard to fully judge. Garage West - 2 fruits, one had a rotten area but still tried to work around it. Sweet with a floral flavor that I believe approximates violet.
Second fruit I hung on to for a couple days. It was one of the best pawpaws I’ve eaten, but very hard to say exactly why. It just hit all the buttons. I still got the violet but not as much. Kind of like the marshmallows in Lucky Charms. Great smooth firmish texture.
Based on this, I would want to propagate it.
Can anyone tell me what you think about the productivity and flavor, the ripening time (early, mid or late) of these varieties? All the fruits on my trees dropped due to the heatwave we had in June in WA state. Another year of waiting. Thank you!
We have those four here. I would consider them mid to mid-late.
Wells is slightly before Susquehanna, but overlaps a bit here from what I have seen. I would say it would be Mango, NC-1, Sunflower, then Wells. They are all in the second half of harvest here for us.
Loved the pawpaws you sent, thanks. I think this is most of them. In addition to the more common Shenandoah and Susquehanna, Neal and Carmelo were two top quality standouts.
Lorner = Corner @SMC_zone6 That was my bad, I should have used marker better.
@IL847 refers to this pawpaw in an earlier post as more wild tasting. It’s just more phenolic and stronger in my mind like NC-1, bear in mind she likes eating pawpaws when they darken and soften up.
Rebecca’s Gold started to fall today (not pictured). @TrilobaTracker
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