Pecan


#281

Thank you for the continued discussion. It is helpful.

SoCal has a multitude of climate zones. Mine is 10b, and so is Oaxaca. Species native to Oaxaca work well here, for example Green Sapote, White Sapote, and Chiapas Avocado. Hence, I am very interested with experimenting with a Pecan cultivar from 10b instead of something acclimated from 9 to 10. It appears such individuals exist in the NPGS repository.


#282

It appears that out of the 3,651 pecan specimens cataloged by NPGS that 336 scions were sourced from Mexico (BCAR 1341 thru BCAR 1576). Allow for duplicates.


#283

Here’s a map of Pecans catalogued at the Brownwood TX site:

https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/maps.aspx?taxonomyid=9253


#284

There are many more accessions from far more locations than are on that map. I know for sure of several locations in Oklahoma, North Carolina, Alabama, and Kentucky that are not on it. I am also certain that many more locations in Mexico are represented in the collection. For example, a few dozen trees are in the collection that came from Jalisco, yet it is not pinned. They are having trouble with the accessions from Mexico. This cold snap hit many of the trees still in full leaf.

From information gathered so far, there are no outstanding trees from Mexico. There may still be a few worth growing given your climate.

This is a list of all accessions held at Brownwood. There are some accessions held as family groups which include many from Mexico.

Annamocarya sinensis (11 Accessions)
Carya aquatica (44 Accessions)
Carya carolinae-septentrionalis (3 Accessions)
Carya cathayensis (5 Accessions)
Carya cordiformis (29 Accessions)
Carya floridana (3 Accessions)
Carya glabra (24 Accessions)
Carya hunanensis (5 Accessions)
Carya hybr. (34 Accessions)
Carya illinoinensis (3615 Accessions)
Carya laciniosa (33 Accessions)
Carya myristiciformis (39 Accessions)
Carya ovalis (3 Accessions)
Carya ovata (52 Accessions)
Carya pallida (13 Accessions)
Carya palmeri (3 Accessions)
Carya spp. (8 Accessions)
Carya texana (47 Accessions)
Carya tomentosa (32 Accessions)
Carya tonkinensis (7 Accessions)
Carya x brownii (9 Accessions)
Carya x laneyi (3 Accessions)
Carya x lecontei (21 Accessions)
Carya x nussbaumeri (23 Accessions)

#285

Of the Carya illinoinensis accessions catalogued from Mexico, there are:

5 – Mexico, Chihuahua
165 – Mexico, Coahuila
10 – Mexico, Durango
20 – Mexico, Nuevo Leon
32 – Mexico, Queretaro
4 – Mexico, Tamaulipas

All of them were acquired in 1994. None of them are listed ‘available’.

Here is a list of the individuals: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ICJrXS9g2b7WrLkCDu3O7Ayr97tnOB530hYBnRl4Ets/edit?usp=drivesdk


#286

That list is missing over 1000 accessions, for example, all of the 1987 accessions as well as many of the 1994 accessions that do not specify point of origin. There should be 1570 total accessions from Mexico.

The more I study the Brownwood data, the more I realize it is very disorganized and lacks detail needed to figure out if any of it is useful.

Here is the blurb explaining why accessions are shown as unavailable.

“In the summer of 2015, some accessions of the National Collection of Genetic Resources for Pecans and Hickories (NCGR-Carya) were found to be infected with Pecan Bacterial Leaf Scorch, incited by Xylella fastidiosa, a bacterial pathogen that can cause chronic disease associated with reduced yields. The pathogen is vectored by common insects resident in Repository orchards. Duplicate tests on symptomatic materials performed by different laboratories obtained differing results. We immediately began to refine diagnostic protocols to ensure reliable results. We also discontinued distributing graftwood to any requestor, domestic or international, until we could verify that materials were free of the disease. No graftwood has been distributed from our collections since the summer of 2015. We are actively engaged in cooperative research with a national team of scientists, developing improved methods of disease detection, coupled with improved distinction of symptom expression. The inventory of the NCGR-Carya is being screened using those improved techniques. When those tests have been completed, we will resume graftwood distribution from disease free accessions, following the Distribution Guidelines of the National Plant Germplasm System.”


#287

Of Carya illinoinensis?


#288

yes, of Carya Illinoenensis.

I found another one you might look at. Check out the origin and description of San Felipe #1. Frutoso is the other worth a hard look.

In the trivia department, I can now analyze things like which varieties make the biggest pecans. Here are all that make less than 40 nuts per pound.

Podsednik
Mahan-Stuart
Rome
Mahan
Pensacola Cluster
Imperial
GraKing
Jackson
Choctaw
Comanche
GraPark Giant


#289

I spoke with John Brittain at Nolin River Nursery today. He says he still has about 40 Hark trees if anyone wants them. I’m going to pick up some Oswego scionwood at Auburn in a couple of weeks and ship to him so he can get some trees grafted. He said he has a few Oswego, but not enough to collect scionwood.

I also spoke with Fred Blankenship. He sent me samples of Simpson #1 shellbark hickory. It is an excellent flavored and easily cracked hickory. I’ll be getting scionwood and putting in a couple of grafts.

Fred also sent a couple of Grandview #2 walnuts. The flavor was excellent! I’ve sampled a lot of different walnuts over the years. None were better flavored and only a few comparable. I measured these at 22% kernel using the kernel weight / total weight method. They shelled out 8 grams of kernel and 28 grams of shell with total weight of 36 grams for 2 nuts. 8/36 = 22.2% A sample of Thomas from my trees shells out 25% kernel.


#290

I received a sample of ‘Hall’ pecans today from a dentist who lives in Evergreen Alabama. A few years ago, he send scionwood to Fred Blankenship who has a grafted tree that is now bearing nuts. The background on this tree is that a man ordered and planted 3 trees beside his house sometime in the 1930’s. It is not known if the trees were grafted or seedlings. Two of the trees died leaving a single tree growing. About 50 years ago, a man found out about the tree and got a few buds onto seedlings. He has mature trees growing and producing nuts. He is in his 90’s now and trying to get other people to give them a try. I went through a dozen varieties with similar descriptions and did not find a match to this pecan. My opinion is that it is a seedling but this needs to be verified by someone with more knowledge and experience than I have.

The nuts are pointed with acute apex and rounded base, slightly rotund in the middle, 60 nuts per pound with 49% kernel. They might run a tad higher percent kernel if under best management practices. The kernels are a bit tighter bound into the shell than I like. Flavor is excellent. Scab resistance is reportedly very good. This pecan won’t win the favor of commercial growers because of low weight, low percent kernel, and kernel bound in the shell a bit too tight. It looks to be a good pecan for home growers.

The market currently is looking for a pecan with 30 to 50 nuts per pound, 55 to 60 percent kernel, early maturity in September or very early October, good fill and flavor, easy to shell, and high resistance to pests and disease.


#291

While visiting my kinfolk in OK, we made sure to pick up some pecans while we were there. We called a few places and they were already closed for the season, which was discouraging. But thankfully my mom knew a fellow who gets his from other vendors. We gave them a call and he said he had some.

We drove over and had just a few 5 and 10lb bags of Kanza nuts, partially shelled. The best part was that he only charged $4/lb, that’s the best price we’ve found on such good nuts in years. We picked up a 5lb bag for us, and few extras for our friends back home.

The fellow grew them in very large orchard east of Tulsa. He grows Kanza, Pawnee, and Oconee among others. He said due to a very wet summer, he had quite a battle with scab, especially on the Pawnee. He said the Kanza were almost scab free. This variety was the last one he was selling, the Pawnee matured earlier, and were sold out about a month ago. I prefer the taste of Pawnee, but these Kanza are still very tasty.

I think we’ll get about 3lb of nut meat out of each 5lb bag. That is, if we don’t have too much sampling going on!


#292

@Fusion_power
Iowa is pollen shed 1.
125 nuts per pound

Kernel % 50
Shell % 50
(of three cracked)

(1) 2.0 gm shell / 2.0 gm kernel
(2) 2.1 gm shell / 2.0 gm kernel
(3) 1.9 gm shell / 1.9 gm kernel

Carya illinoinensis ‘Iowa’
137-139 days to shuck split
Pollen Type 1
Kernel % 50
Shell % 50
Cracks in bits and pieces mainly & rarely in quarters.

Evaluation 2018 January
(Herbst, Dax)


#293

Thanks Dax, I’ve input the info into the sheet.

I have a copy of “Pecan Cultivars: Past and Present” by Tommy Thompson and Fountain Young on order from Amazon. I am watching for a copy of Darrell Sparks book “Pecan Cultivars: The Orchard’s Foundation” to come up on Ebay. One sold back in October for $35. Between them, I hope to add more detail and perhaps more cultivars to the list.

Adding info that ‘Hall’ - mentioned above - produces a high percentage of tri-lobe pecans. The sample I have runs about 7 percent or one in 14 pecans. This is an unusual trait that to my knowledge is documented in very few other varieties though I have seen an occasional tri-lobe pecan in several other varieties. This is the first time I’ve seen one that runs so high. USDA has ‘BCAR 592 MX 5-3 triple cotyledons’ listed in their inventory.


#294

Got a picture of that? I’ve never seen a tri-lobe pecan.

Dax


#295

I will see if my egg man has any of the tri-lobe pecans. This tree throws a good percentage of them.


#296

F_p,
Mike Cartwright and I have traded some plant materials in the past, but I don’t recall him talking about the ‘Hall’ pecan at that time.

I have ‘Wortham’ pecan, brought to my attention by my wife - a large, papershell type, that Larry Grauke says is most likely Mahan, but tree was growing and bearing at Lynn Grove, KY, about 20 miles west of Murray, KY. It also produced a noticeable number of trilobed nuts.
Shape and shell thickness was similar to the old Mahan in the yard back at Auburn, but larger than I recalled - though the tree in Auburn was virtually never fertilized. Like an older Mahan, the kernels were often incompletely filled.
Have seen nuts of ‘Hausmann’, a tree growing at Mt. Vernon, IN, that look indistinguishable from Wortham (or Mahan)… but I’ve not seen enough of them to know if it throws trilobate nuts. My one graft of Hausmann died several years ago… but I planted a seedling at my kids’ elementary school, and it produced nuts for the first time this year… but I didn’t know it until I passed by the other day and saw the empty husks in the canopy.


#297

@bambooman, best get to Ray City if you want an Avalon to plant. I got 23 today and left about 15 or 20. They won’t last long. When you get to the address, drive back on the dirt road about 1/4 mile to where they are hilling in the trees. He has people there who can show you where the plants are. Be sure to carry a few large plastic bags to bring them home!


#298

How did the root systems look, lots of fibers?


#299

The trees are very small at 2 to 3 ft tall, but they have healthy root systems. I got 23 of them because $8 per tree. He had some larger trees that were grown on contract and were already sold.


#300

Thanks Darrell, Dr. Patrick Conner raved about this cultivar. I’m headed to Ray City this afternoon. Buck is a nice guy. I spoke with him about grafting. He recommends whip and tongue now, while the trees are dormant. He says he gets 70% takes. I asked him if he tries whip and tongue after bud swell, he said not to try it. Maybe @Barkslip or @Lucky_P can chime in?

I forgot to add, Buck has another row of Avalon you may not have seen. He is digging those today.