And we need to get together and create trials of these trees in multiple locations side by side to determine more. For instance I have been told of Saijo and NG taking -12 with some damage here in Kansas, yet Saijo taking -11 undamaged… And I have read Russian Kaki(similar to Saijo) is a bit hardier than Saijo so what can it take?
We have a lot of work to do 
I think it is significant in my situation the temperatures surrounding our polar event. We were in the 60-70’s highs and 30’s to 40’s lows the week before and popped right back into the same or even higher temps a week after.
My 6y/o Eureka has some leaves on a few lower branches and green buds coming up about 5 foot from the ground so I think it will eventually be okay. Now it’s got to survive 90’s to 100’s temps this summer. Some of my very small trees have leaves forming just above the graft line and a couple are showing rapid growth of those new leaves. I might add that we had about an 8 inch snow cover so on those small trees the budding areas were below the snow line and our ground did not freeze.
One thing that surprised me when I was in Kansas was that while the average low was the same for Mass, and the temperature swings wilder, the winters were much milder overall. Low temps wouldn’t stick for days at a time, and the winter started later and ended earlier. The hardiness zone maps really struggle to capture that sort of regional variation, and I think persimmons are one of the plants where the zone info alone is really inadequate. For example, I’d be willing to bet that Tam Kam, Chinebuli, etc, would have no trouble with Z6b in the Georgia mountains, but would struggle with 6b in Kansas or southern Massachusetts. Or Kansas might be fine, since the cold snaps don’t last as long. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that they’re basically tropical plants that figured out how to handle winter.
Also, (back to Kansas) I’ve never lived anywhere else with so many apricot trees around, (both planted and escapee). There was at least one that set and ripened fruit every year that I was there. Which goes against the conventional wisdom that wild temp swings doom apricots. I do wonder if thinking about things like that might have some bearing on evaluating persimmon hardiness.
@k8tpayaso I’m glad to hear at least some of your trees are making a comeback!
In North Texas, Zone 8a, we got down to -5F. However we were in the mid to upper 70s before the vortex hit and right back up there after. Fire Crystal, Fuyu, and Hachiya were the three that survived for me (so far, i am still holding on to hope that others will come back). Fire Crystal is my smallest tree, but did the best, with no top death. Fuyu lost the top half of the tree. and Hachiya sent out new leaves and growth just above the graft union, the rest of the tree looks dead.
I suspect that the buds may have been developing, getting ready to open and the hard freeze is what caused the death.
I can tell you what made -17 temps on several hybrids as soon as things start waking up. Early golden is leafing out already but the hybrids are still dormant, I hope. My trees are real young though so I protected most of them at -17 with wire cages filled with wheat straw. @Dudeness that is pretty good news on your fire crystal, I would have never guessed it would have made -5, especially with that big of temperature swing. How many hours were you in that 0 to -5 range?
I gotta begin again with the hybrids besides Chuchupaka or JT-02. I had them on southern rootstocks, native seed of, Georgia. They didn’t make it thru the winter, two years ago when the low was like -6 but definitely warmer/under -10 F.
I planted about 2/3’s on southern rootstock including American persimmon cultivars. None of them made it thru the winter.
I believe @tonyOmahaz5 said JT-02 produces after -22 F and I’ve had (2) of them (JT-02 aka Mikkusu) die to a few inches above the graft union at -30 to -33 F during the 2018 polar vortex that I was near the eye of. They re-shot and are looking good, again.
Chuchupaka has now gone thru -9, my low this year.
Kasandra isn’t very hardy. It’s about a -11 tree or thereabouts if @SMC_zone6 tree was on northern roots. He lost his Kasandra at -11 near Boston MASS.
Rosseyanka isn’t hardy in zone 5b in IL. It’ll try to come back and does for 3-years and then it dies again. I live in a great 5b where -12 is the norm, annually. The very-coldest I see is -18. It’s a great trial place for zone 5b.
Nikita’s Gift is zone 7. 6b might do it for Nikita’s Gift but it’s a true zone 7.
NB-02 aka Zima Kurma has the genetics of: Nikita’s Gift x (kaki) Taishu. That’s not going to be very cold hardy.
JT-02 definitely seems to be the one to beat. I’m putting one in the ground this year or next year, and I’m giving one to a friend in Downeast Maine to try. Also Z5b, but much cooler summers. We should have some good info from northern New England in a few years.
I think we were probably under 0 for a good 10-12 hours. I don’t have good historical logging from my weather station, some day i may invest in proper logging. I honestly bought Fire Crystal on a whim as i had a spot i wanted a persimmon, and was already placing an order with OGW.
A lot of good info here, Dax. For me, the tricky thing in figuring out persimmon hardiness is the variable of rootstock. I lost most of my persimmons about five years ago. And since then I’ve grown out my own seed and grafted everything onto the hardiest and latest to leaf out versions of that. I’ll have more information to report after we get another test winter (the past few have been fairly mild).
@PaulinKansas6b – Great idea and great list. Once question: Your zone designations seem 10 F lower than the USDA averages. For example, Z6B is supposed to have an average low 0 to -5 F but that’s the range you give for Z7B. Is that designed to capture colder than average years?
I don’t have much info to add, just one possible contriubution: I have 3 Ichi Ki Kei Jiro planted in 2015 that have survived numerous episodes at 0 to -5 F with no damage except in the 1st winter.
A single Prok planted in 2015 endured the same, no surprise. Ditto a Kassandra planted in 2017. The past two winters only got down to +10-15 F here, so no test of anything recently.
Good info on Ichi being hardy to at least -5F it sounds like!
Yeah thats right my temps are for trying to estimate those 10 year polar expresses that too often take out orchards. I would love to make a chart that is fairly reliable for those 10 year minimum temps. For instance I am in 6b and this winter got -12F and others got that cold even in 7a. And I know of zone 6a areas getting more like -20F. So yeah preparing for that means leaning things in the hardy direction for a reliable chart. So that would make Ichi perhaps in the warmer half of 7a category as far as the polar potential goes im guessing. Though in microclimates an established tree may make it in 6b perhaps. thanks!
Thx. I’m near the ocean, which has a moderating effect. I’d guess that my worst case scenario may not be as bad as for those inland in 6B. So your guess that warm 7A or full 7B is an appropriate limit is probably correct. Or at least I have no evidence to dispute it.
I’m in Illinois, just north of St. Louis, MO. I’m in zone 6a according to the map, but very seldom experience temps below -5. My Rosseyanka and Kasandra have been surviving well. However, they break bud one or two weeks ahead of my virginianas, and were damaged by a freeze in April last year. They bore almost no fruit.
I agree! Yeah being along the east coast states for sure is more consistent weather patterns than our wild swings out here in the prairie. I’d for sure do some more zone pushing if I were in your location.
Thanks for the report! Yeah too bad they bud out a bit early some years! Perhaps growing some virginia cultivars that leaf out later is something I should do! Do you have a virginia in mind that leafs out on the late side?
Paul, what persimmons do you have that are already leafing out. I need to check mine, but I know early golden and one other has started for me, I need to check which one it is. None of the hybrids are ahead of early golden. The other is either meader or wabash.
For what it’s worth, a few of the hybrid and pure kaki survivors this year with a low of -1.5 in Mass were: Inchon, Saijo, Kassandra, Rosseyanka, Okja, JT-02, Chuchupaka, Maekawa Jiro, and most of my own seedling hybrids.
Giombo had quite a bit of dieback.
I have better luck with establishment from seed too and with the droughts we get, I hope the deep tap roots will help. Those seedlings can grow fast with the right conditions (many are 24-30" after the first year without doing anything too crazy) and produce some nice roots. Here’s a stunted seedling I had pulled to thin an area I over planted. Nice deep roots though. If I had been thinking, I would have selectively pulled them based on which ones had their leaves fried by the late freeze last year, rather than which ones were necessarily the biggest. We hit -29F (at least) this winter, so I’ll see what’s what with my seedlings and grafts.
I have made a few adjustments to the excellent list that you have made available but only a few that I have had long term time of Observations since the conception of some of these Cultivars Here is Kentucky
COLD hardiness for Persimmons.docx (13.1 KB)
I can add that with all the die back I had on all my varieties from the precipitous cold event here that Miss Kim and Tecumseh were basically unaffected. It may have slowed their exit from dormancy but very minimal tip die back on Tecumseh (3 year graft) and none on a Miss Kim (2 year graft).
