Persimmon


#21

RF

I usually do bark graft on larger understock and simple cleft graft on smaller understock. Aftercare is more important than the graft method. Just have to rub off all the new growth below the union every 3 to 4 days. The sap only goes to the scion only.

Tony


#22

A few other things I like to do besides removing water sprouts: I first like to wrap the scion in parafilm-M to keep it from drying out. Second I use aluminum foil to create a sun screen. Finally, I strap a piece of bamboo to the tree along the scion so birds are not tempted to land on it before it has taken.

I’ve grafted 17 native trees so far this spring with some more planned for then next couple weeks.


#23

Tony,

Does the Ichi give you fruits and how prolific is it? I pooled with my brother, bought 4 pawpaw and a Fuyu this year. I also sent him your persimmon’s winter protection instruction link and wished him lucks!

We’re in the same zone 5. I’m still contemplating about that but have not make my move yet.

Tom


#24

Tom

I think Tam Kam non-astringent Asian persimmon is better choice for you than Ichi because of the larger and sweeter fruits. They both rated for zone 6 which is about -10F but you better cover them up and use a light bulb when the temp dip down to -4F and beyond to ensure survival of the tree. I am going to graft 5 more Tam Kam on the hardy native American persimmon rootstocks to do some more trial by bury some of them about a foot deep and some about a foot and a half deep beyond the graft union to see which depth will survive the -20F and re-sprout of the same cultivar in the future. In addition, I am doing a trial from Cliff England’s Kasandra and JT-02 Hybrid persimmons which could handle the low of -11F at his place in Kentucky without any cold damage. The future is looking good for the Northern folks whom love the taste of Kaki because these Hybrids taste almost the same and sometimes better…

Tony


#25

@forestandfarm pictures please. thanks!

ps: I think grafting entire scion is prone to drying out and hard, I am attempting bud graft this July


#26

Tony,

Thanks for the Tam Kam advice. When I’m ready, I’ll be thinking about that as my next purchase.

You’re one busied gardener with patience and projects!

Tom


#27

Tom

I forgot to mention that Tam Kam always sold out fast. If you decided to buy one then you have to order it in 6 to 8 months in advance. The two nurseries that carry the Tam Kam are Edible Lanscaping (eat-it .com) and Just Fruits and Exotics in Florida. Good Luck my friend. Still passing gas 60 hrs a week and handle the orchard just fine for the 50 yrs old guy. Chao!

Tony


#28

I’ll 2nd about preordering Tam Kam, I ordered mine in Jan from EL and it very soon sold out. Should ship next week!


#29

Wow. Thanks Tony and Ampersand for the “sold out” tip. I’ve just looked up “Just Fruits and Exotics” and saw their “sold out” sign for 2014. Maybe they’re not ready for 2015 yet!

Talk about passing gas, well we did spend some gas to pick up our kid in Creighton last weekend, doing a total of 15 hours round-trip driving, not counting the hour of setting up household stuff from dorm to apartment before heading home. That was not a fun trip!

And when we got to Omaha, I thought about “tonyOmahaz5” and your orchard! I told my wife about the pawpaw purchase that based on your familiarity and inputs. Again, thank you for your help.

Tom


#30

I haven’t taken any pictures of the trees I’ve grafted this year. Here is one taken a previous year after grafting:

I was using Doc Farwell’s to seal the wound back then and the version of parafilm I used was not the “M” version so it does not stay in place as well. The picture does show the sun shield and bamboo bird deterrent.

The next picture is of one of the grafts not too long after it leafed out:

Here is a picture from July. Notice that they grow so fast when using larger root stock that I also use that bamboo as a stake for the future central leader until they harden off:


#31

Tony,

Instead of out right buying the Tam Kam, I think I’m going the route of trading for A. persimmon seedling and later the Tam Kam scions wood for grafting. Least expensive and most satisfying experience!

Tom


#32

Tom

There are several ways you can choose to do it: You can buy some seeds from Cliff England and start your own seedlings. You can trade with someone for a seedling. You can also buy the rootstocks from your department of forestry in a bundle of 20 or 50 seedlings at a reasonable price. Five years ago I bought a bundle of 20 seedlings from Missouri Dept of Forestry for $14 and I think they also sell paw paw and wild plum too. You can order an individual seedling from Burnt Ridge Nursery but they may be sold out by now. Plant them for a year or so to size up and trade scions with someone for a Tam Kam scion and graft it. I think you should also graft a Prok American persimmon as a back up. It is self fruitful, large, sweet, tasty, and can handle the cold to -20F.

Tony


#33

Tony,

I think :wink: I have only one spot left for a persimmon so it’s definitely reserved for the Tam Kam. Do I understand that you suggested grafting a Prok and a Tam Kam onto ONE seedling/rootstock? Have anyone ever done that? A combo of sort? That would be interesting to know how this combo turns out…

Tom


#34

I often cut down my native persimmons in the 1" to 5" diameter class and bark graft multiple scions for insurance to the larger rootstock. I feel that with larger trees it gives the large root system somewhere to put it’s energy besides water sprouts. I will sometimes use multiple varieties when I do this. It creates a “holding place” for scions for the following year.

Eventually I always cull the scions down to a single central leader. I’m afraid of the bad crotch angle it would create keeping more than one scion, but I may try this sometime as an experiment.

I don’t think that grafting multiple varieties to a single rootstock would not be an issue if you use other grafting techniques like t-budding where you are not creating a bad crotch angle for the tree.


#35

Forestandfarm,
I should clarify my earlier question.

Have anyone ever grafted an American Persimmon (like Prok) and an Asian variety (like Tam Kam) onto a single tree/rootstock)? Growth rate maybe different and cause imbalance/problem later on, maybe?

If this work, then if the less hardy one died out in a harsh winter, at least the hardier American Persimmon variety would be able to provide some branches to re-graft another Asian Persimmon onto? This idea I picked up from the conversation with TonyOmaha, the die-hard persimmon zone pusher…

Tony,
What’s your take regarding this subject? Of course, if someone with a strong background for persimmon like you had already tried and not worked out, then we should not spend years to find out the answer that was already provided!

I have zero experience in persimmon so I’m still trying to pick up info here!

Tom


#36

Got it. I’m not zone pushing with mine. I’m in 7A so both will grow here.


#37

Tom

I have done it several times in the past. I started out by bark graft a Prok or an Early Golden American persimon on a two years old seeding and let the grafts grow for a couple of years to size up. I then do some cold hardy trial like grafting a Sheng or a Greatwall astringent Asian persimmon to a couple of branches. Both grafts took and died 2 'years later with the -13F. Tom the only way to keep the grafted Tam Kam in your Zone is to wrap that branch and hang a light builb in the center of the branch and turn it on when the temp drops to
-4F or below. Somehow if grafted Tam Kam died the you still have the Prok to enjoy. Just like killing two birds with one stone,

Tony

Here is my 7 Varieties Multi bark grafted American persimmon tree.


#38

Tony,

Thank for the advice.

Sounds like it should work for a Tam Kam and a Prok grafted onto 1 tree with the extra care in winter per your winter wrapping method.

I’m thinking if I graft them both at closer to ground level, then the protection could be more effective. If the winter die back was not so severe, only the top of Tam Kam needed regrow but not the entire graft. Does that make logical sense to you?

Tom


#39

Tom

That sounds good.

Tony


#40

@MMR_Tulsa6B since Iast week my Hana-Fuyu started to come out of dormancy :smile:

How about yours?